Answering Islam - A Christian-Muslim dialog

Is Allah impotent and untrustworthy?

The Abdullah Kunde Dilemma

Sam Shamoun

It seems that there is another up and coming Muslim propagandist and debater on the horizon, one who isn’t hesitant to commit the same mistakes which many Muslim dawagandists make in their attacks against Christianity. Australian Muslim apologist Abdullah Kunde has been making the rounds lately by engaging in a series of debates with Christian apologists such as Dr. James R. White and our very own Samuel Green. Here is a list of some of the debates which Kunde has engaged in:

James White vs. Abdullah Kunde: The New Testament or the Qur'an?

Samuel Green vs. Abdullah Kunde: Saviour of the World: Jesus or the Qur'an?

Kunde vs. Green: God of the Old Testament: Jesus or Allah?

Green vs. Kunde: The Preservation of the Bible and Qur'an

Like other dawagandists before him, Kunde seems so focused on discrediting Christianity at all costs that he doesn’t bother to stop for a moment to think whether such criticisms can be used against Islam.

Therefore, in the spirit of keeping Muslim apologists honest and consistent we have decided to show Kunde and other Muslims what happens when we take their own criticisms and apply them to their religious beliefs and traditions.

In his recent debate with Samuel Green on the topic, “Savior of the World: Jesus or the Quran?”, Kunde claimed that the sacrifice of Christ limits God’s power:

“All-powerful. Well, if I can just ask the Christians here in the room to give me a quick show of hands. Who thinks through the sacrifice of Jesus you’re guaranteed entry into heaven? Ok, so are you going to stand before God on the Day of Judgment and say, ‘You now need to let me into heaven because I believed in something?’ So God’s going to be forced to let you into heaven? So you have a God that is not all-powerful because you as a human being are now forcing him to do something.”

Kunde’s argument that God is not omnipotent because he is obligated to save all those who accept Jesus’ sacrifice is not only an absurd claim, but it actually backfires against him.

The Quran says Allah has bound himself to give paradise as a reward to all those martyrs who kill people in the cause of their god:

Verily, Allah has purchased of the believers their lives and their properties; for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise. They fight in Allah's Cause, so they kill (others) and are killed. It is a promise in truth which is BINDING ON HIM in the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) AND THE QUR'AN. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain which you have concluded. That is the supreme success. S. 9:111 Hilali-Khan

This isn’t the only place where the Quran claims that Allah is bound to do something for someone:

Then We deliver Our apostles and those who believe -- even so (now), it is BINDING on Us (that) We deliver the believers. S. 10:103 Shakir

They have sworn by God the most earnest oaths God will never raise up him who dies; nay, it is a promise BINDING upon Him, but most men know not, S. 16:38 Arberry

And (remember) the Day when We shall roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books, as We began the first creation, We shall repeat it, (it is) a promise BINDING upon Us. Truly, We shall do it. 21:104 Hilali-Khan

Say: 'Is that better, or the Garden of Eternity, that is promised to the godfearing, and is their recompense and homecoming?' Therein they shall have what they will dwelling forever; it is a promise BINDING upon thy Lord, and of Him to be required. S. 25:15-16 Arberry

These passages expressly state that Allah is bound to deliver or save his messengers and believers, raise the dead, recreate the universe, and grant paradise or the garden to the god-fearing.

But that’s not at all. Notice what Muhammad is reported to have said in some of the so-called sound ahadith:

It is narrated on the authority of Mu'adh b. Jabal: I was riding behind the Prophet and there was nothing between him and me but the rear part of the saddle, when he said: Mu'adh b. Jabal: To which I replied: At your beck and call, and at your pleasure, Messenger of Allah! He moved along for a few minutes, when again he said: Mu'adh b. Jabal: To which I replied: At your beck and call, and at your pleasure, Messenger of Allah! He then again moved along for a few minutes and said: Mu'adh b. Jabal: To which I replied. At your beck and call, and at your pleasure. Messenger of Allah He, (the Holy Prophet) said: Do you know what right has Allah upon His servants? I said: Allah and His Messenger know best. He (the Holy Prophet) said: Verily the right of Allah over His servants is that they should worship Him, not associating anything with Him. He (the Holy Prophet) with Mu'adh behind him, moved along for a few minutes and said: Mu'adh b. Jabal: To which I replied: At your beck and call, and at your pleasure, Messenger of Allah! He (the Holy Prophet) said: Do you know what rights have servants upon Allah in case they do it (i.e. they worship Allah without associating anything with Him)? I (Mu'adh b. Jabal) replied: Allah and His Messenger know best. (Upon this) he (the Holy Prophet) remarked: That He would not torment them (with the fire of Hell). (Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 46)

It is narrated on the authority of Mu'adh b. Jabal that the Messenger of Allah said: Mu'adh, do you know the right of Allah over His bondsmen? He (Mu'adh) said: Allah and His Apostle know best. He said: That Allah alone should be worshipped and nothing should be associated with Him. He (the Holy Prophet) said: What right have they (bondsmen) upon Him in case they do it? He (Mu'adh) said: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) said: That He would not punish them. (Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 48)

Here Muhammad says that Muslims have rights over Allah just as he has rights over them. The right that Muslims have over Allah is that he must save them from punishment if they believe that there is no god besides him.

This is the height of blasphemy since no creature can ever claim any rights over God so that God must or is forced to do something for that creature.

As the Apostle Paul put it, no one will ever be able to boast before God or make him a debtor on account of what they have done:

“Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! 'Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?' 'Who has ever given to God, that God should repay them?' For from him and through him and for him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen." Romans 11:33-36

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." Ephesians 2:8-10

Paul was merely echoing what the OT writers had known and affirmed:

"If you are righteous, what do you give to him? Or what does he receive from your hand?" Job 35:7

"Who then is he who can stand before me? Who has first given to me, that I should repay him? Whatever is under the whole heaven is mine." Job 41:10b-11

This next hadith is even worse:

It is narrated on the authority of Mu'adh b. Jabal that he observed: I was riding behind the Messenger of Allah on an ass known as 'Ufair. He (Mu'adh) observed: He (the Holy Prophet) said: Mu'adh, do you know what right has Allah over His bondsmen and what right have His bondsmen over Him? Mu'adh added: I replied: Allah and his Messenger know best. Upon this he (the Holy Prophet remarked: The right of Allah over His bondsmen is that they should worship Allah and should not associate anything with Him, and the right of His bondsmen OVER Allah, Glorious and Sublime, is that He does not punish him who associates not anything with Him. He (Mu'adh) added: I said to the Messenger of Allah: Should I then give the tidings to the people? He (the Holy Prophet) said: Do not tell them this GOOD NEWS, for they would trust in it alone. (Sahih Muslim, Book 1, Number 47)

Not only do Muslims have rights over Allah, thereby making Allah impotent per Kunde's logic, this hadith also exposes Muhammad as a transgressor who willfully broke Allah's orders. For instance, the Quran tells Muhammad that he has to convey the message he receives from his impotent deity:

O Messenger (Muhammad)! Proclaim (the Message) which has been sent down to you from your Lord. And if you do not, then you have not conveyed His Message. Allah will protect you from mankind. Verily, Allah guides not the people who disbelieve. S. 5:67 Hilali-Khan

Allah warns Muhammad to convey his message to mankind, otherwise he will fail in his mission if he doesn’t do so.

Yet according to the above hadith Muhammad hid some of the so-called revelation from his followers and forbade Muadh from making known to the rest of the Muslims an important piece of information which Allah had supposedly given to him and which he himself called good news!

What makes this all the more intriguing is that Muadh obviously didn’t listen to Muhammad and chose to dishonor his prophet by publishing this information to the rest of the Muslims. After all, we wouldn't have known this piece of information had Muadh not opened his mouth and told it to others.

This now places Kunde in a bit of a dilemma. If Allah has bound himself by a promise to give his jihadists paradise for killing and being killed in his cause, and if he has also committed himself to saving Muslims from punishment because of their confessing and believing that he is the only deity worthy of worship then this makes him impotent since he cannot do otherwise. However, if Allah isn’t under any necessary obligation to save anyone and doesn’t have to commit to keeping his promise or fulfilling his obligation to his servants then this means that Allah is a lying, deceitful, capricious deity who cannot be taken at his word. Such a god cannot be trusted and is unworthy of being worshiped.

So much for Kunde’s logic.

Kunde also claimed that Christ’s sacrifice is illogical:

“Why do I say these things? Well, as I said, first of all the method of salvation is illogical, absolutely illogical. How’s it logical that somebody should be punished for something that, a) they didn’t do, because we assume that God wasn’t part of the whole original sin thing with Adam; that b) I should be punished for something I didn’t do because I didn’t eat in the garden. And that c) it’s the punishment of an individual who didn’t even commit the sin at all, who created the system in the first place and that sets it all back in motion. If you are kind of lost in what I am saying there, it’s because it doesn’t make sense.”

By using such argumentation Kunde ends up once again condemning his own god and prophet. Unlike Kunde, Muhammad had no problem with people being punished for the sins of others since he taught that Adam’s transgression led to the expulsion of all mankind from the heavenly garden:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "Adam and Moses argued with each other. Moses said to Adam. 'O Adam! You are our father WHO DISAPPOINTED US AND TURNED US OUT OF PARADISE.' Then Adam said to him, 'O Moses! Allah favored you with His talk (talked to you directly) and He wrote (the Torah) for you with His Own Hand. Do you blame me for action WHICH ALLAH HAD WRITTEN IN MY FATE forty years before my creation?' So Adam confuted Moses, Adam confuted Moses," the Prophet added, repeating the Statement three times. (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 77, Number 611)

It is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira and Hudhaifa that the Messenger of Allah said: Allah, the Blessed and Exalted, would gather people. The believers would stand till the Paradise would be brought near them. They would come to Adam and say: O our father, open for us the Paradise. He would say: What turned you out from the Paradise WAS THE SIN OF YOUR FATHER ADAM. I am not in a position to do that; ... (Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0380)

Kunde’s prophet also blamed Eve for wives rebelling against their husbands, and even held the Jews responsible for food becoming stale and meat decaying!

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "Were it not for Bani Israel, meat would not decay; and were it not FOR EVE, no woman would ever betray her husband." (Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 611)

Hammam b. Munabbih said: These are some of the ahadith which Abu Huraira narrated to us from Allah's Messenger, and one of these (this one): Allah's Messenger said: Had it not been for Bani Isra'il, food would not have become stale, and meat would not have gone bad; and had it not been FOR Eve, a woman would never have acted unfaithfully toward her husband. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3472)

But that’s not at all. Muhammad further claimed that the reason why human beings do not walk around naked, but instead cover themselves, is because of the shame which the sin of Adam and Eve brought upon mankind:

And (We said): O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the garden; so eat from where you O Adam, inherit, thou and thy wife, the Garden, and eat of where you will, but come not nigh this tree, lest you be of the evildoers.' Then Satan whispered to them, to reveal to them that which was hidden from them of their shameful parts. He said, 'Your Lord has only prohibited you from this tree lest you become angels, or lest you become immortals.' And he swore to them, 'Truly, I am for you a sincere adviser.' So he led them on by delusion; and when they tasted the tree, their shameful parts revealed to them, so they took to stitching upon themselves leaves of the Garden. And their Lord called to them, 'Did not I prohibit you from this tree, and say to you, "Verily Satan is for you a manifest foe"?' They said, 'Lord, we have wronged ourselves, and if Thou dost not forgive us, and have mercy upon us, we shall surely be among the lost.' Said He, 'Get you down, each of you an enemy to each. In the earth a sojourn shall be yours, and enjoyment for a time.' Said He, 'Therein you shall live, and therein you shall die, and from there you shall be brought forth.' Children of Adam! We have sent down on you a garment to cover your shameful parts, and feathers; and the garment of godfearing -- that is better; that is one of God's signs; haply they will remember. Children of Adam! Let not Satan tempt you as he brought your parents out of the Garden, stripping them of their garments to show them their shameful parts. Surely he sees you, he and his tribe, from where you see them not. We have made the Satans the friends of those who do not believe. S. 7:19-27 Arberry

Muhammad also taught that the reason mankind forgets and makes mistakes is because Adam forgot and made a mistake:

Commenting on this Ayah (7:172), At-Tirmidhi recorded that Abu Hurayrah said that the Messenger of Allah said…

<<… So Adam denied that and HIS OFFSPRING FOLLOWED SUIT (denying Allah's covenant), Adam forgot and HIS OFFSPRING FORGOT, Adam made a mistake and HIS OFFSPRING MADE MISTAKES.>>

At-Tirmidhi said, "This Hadith is Hasan Sahih, and it was reported from various chains of narration through Abu Hurayrah from the Prophet. Al-Hakim also recorded it in his Mustadrak, and said; Sahih according to the criteria of Muslim, and they did not record it."

These and similar Hadiths testify that Allah, the Exalted and Most Honored, brought forth Adam's offspring from his loins and separated between the inhabitants of Paradise and those of the Fire… (Tafsir Ibn Kathir, Q. 7:172; bold and capital emphasis ours)

To make matters worse, Muhammad even believed that Allah will actually punish Jews and Christians in hell for the sins committed by Muslims:


Abu Musa' reported that Allah's Messenger said: When it will be the Day of Resurrection Allah would deliver to every Muslim a Jew or a Christian and say: That is your RESCUE from Hell-Fire. (Sahih Muslim, Book 037, Number 6665)

Abu Burda reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Apostle said: No Muslim would die but Allah would admit IN HIS STEAD a Jew or a Christian in Hell-Fire. 'Umar b. Abd al-'Aziz took an oath: By One besides Whom there is no god but He, thrice that his father had narrated that to him from Allah's Messenger. (Sahih Muslim, Book 037, Number 6666)

Abu Burda reported Allah's Messenger as saying: There would come people amongst the Muslims on the Day of Resurrection with AS HEAVY SINS AS A MOUNTAIN, and Allah would FORGIVE THEM and He would PLACE IN THEIR STEAD the Jews and the Christians. (As far as I think), Abu Raub said: I do not know as to who is in doubt. Abu Burda said: I narrated it to 'Umar b. 'Abd al-'Aziz, whereupon he said: Was it your father who narrated it to you from Allah's Apostle? I said: Yes. (Sahih Muslim, Book 037, Number 6668)

Superiority of the believers in the Oneness of Allah and the punishment of the Jews and Christians

8) Narrated Abu Musa: Allah’s Messenger said: On the Day of Resurrection, my Ummah (nation) will be gathered into three groups. One sort will enter Paradise without rendering an account (of their deeds). Another sort will be reckoned an easy account and admitted into Paradise. Yet another sort will come bearing on their backs heaps of sins like great mountains. Allah will ask the angels though He knows best about them: Who are these people? They will reply: They are humble slaves of yours. He will say: Unload the sins from them and put the same over the Jews and Christians: then let the humble slaves get into Paradise by virtue of My Mercy.

(This Hadith IS SOUND and mentioned in Mustadrak of Hakim). (110 Hadith Qudsi (Sacred Hadith), translated by Syed Masood-ul-Hasan, revision and commentaries by Ibrahim m. Kunna [Darussalam Publishers and Distributors], pp. 19-20; capital and underline emphasis ours)

These hadiths shockingly testify that Allah is going to ransom Muslims from judgment by condemning Jews and Christians to hell in their place! According to Muhammad, Allah is going to actually place all the sins of the Muslims upon the Jews and Christians so as to punish them for the evil and wicked acts committed by Muhammad’s followers!

Thus, instead of the sinless Son of God ransoming men from eternal wrath by his death on the cross, Muhammad believed that Allah will actually accept the sacrifice of fallible, imperfect beings as an adequate substitute for the crimes committed by Muslims!

This further shows that Muhammad had no problem with Allah actually punishing people for their own personal sins as well as for the transgression of others. After all, the Jews and Christians are not only going to be sent to hell for the evil deeds of Muslims but also for their own sins, especially for the crime of rejecting Muhammad as a prophet and messenger.

In light of such teachings, Kunde is going to have to reject Muhammad and abandon Islam altogether if he is to remain honest and consistent.

Lord willing, we shall be posting more rebuttals to Kunde’s assertions soon.

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