Jesus as Yahweh God

Another Rebuttal to a Muslim’s Denial [Part 3]

Sam Shamoun


JESUS’ GENEAOLOGY AND JEWS FOR JUDAISM

We resume our discussion of Osama's "rebuttal" by analyzing the points raised by Jewish anti-Missionaries (www.jewsforjudaism.com) against the Messianic credentials of the Lord Jesus. Osama quotes them as saying:

...........

11) According to the Jewish Bible, the Messiah must be a descendent of King David.  (Jeremiah 23:5, 33:17; Ezekiel 34:23-24)  Although the Greek Testament traces the genealogy of Joseph (husband of Mary) back to David, it then claims that Jesus resulted from a virgin birth, and, that Joseph was not his father.  (Mat. 1:18-23)  In response, it is claimed that Joseph adopted Jesus, and passed on his genealogy via adoption. 

There are two problems with this claim: 

a) there is no Biblical basis for the idea of a father passing on his tribal line by adoption.  A priest who adopts a son from another tribe cannot make him a priest by adoption;

RESPONSE:

Here, the author attacks a straw man since the argument is not that Jesus was from a different line or tribe than that of David and that Joseph therefore adopted him in order to confer upon him Davidic descent. Jesus was clearly from the line of David through his mother's side. What Joseph conferred upon Jesus was the legal right to the throne of David.

Furthermore, how does the author know that a priest could not adopt a person from another tribe and thereby give him the right to perform priestly functions? Where is this explicitly stated in the Hebrew Scriptures? Where does the Old Testament say that there cannot be exceptions to this general principle of priests having to be of Levitical descent? In actuality, the OT supplies several examples where others who were not Levites performed priestly functions, and were even called priests!

"Joab the son of Zeruiah was over the army, and Jehoshaphat the son of Ahilud was recorder, and Zadok the son of Ahitub and Ahimelech the son of Abiathar were priests (kohanim), and Seraiah was secretary, and Benaiah the son of Jehoiada was over the Cherethites and the Pelethites, and David’s sons were priests (kohanim)." 2 Samuel 8:16-18

David's sons, who were not Levites, are called priests! Messianic Jewish Scholar, Dr. Michael L. Brown, comments on the meaning and use of kohanim:

"The noun occurs 440 times in the singular and 310 times in the plural and always means ‘priest’—without exception; the Rabbinic commentators to 2 Samuel 8:17 struggle with the obvious meaning, which is confirmed by the fact that kohanim also occurs in the previous verse (2 Sam. 8:16), and the meaning there is indisputably ‘priests.’ It is impossible to think that the same word is used two very different ways in the space of two verses in the same context, especially when it is never used in any sense except ‘priest’ throughout the Bible. That the Spirit of God was hinting at something important in this verse is confirmed when we realize that the later parallel passages to 2 Samuel 8 (viz., 1 Chronicles 18) states that David’s sons were ‘chief officials’ (v. 17; ri’shonim). Thus, the special, intentional statement made in 2 Samuel 8:17 is clear: David’s role as a priestly king is seen in the fact that some of his sons were also called priests." (Brown, Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus: General and Historical Objections [Baker Books, January 1, 2000; ISBN: 080106063X], Volume 1, n. 35, p. 226)

In fact, both David and Solomon offered up sacrifices:

"On that day Gad went to David and said to him, ‘Go up and build an altar to the LORD on the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite.’ So David went up, as the LORD had commanded through Gad. When Araunah looked and saw the king and his men coming toward him, he went out and bowed down before the king with his face to the ground. Araunah said, ‘Why has my lord the king come to his servant?’ ’To buy your threshing floor,’ David answered, ‘so I can build an altar to the LORD , that the plague on the people may be stopped.’ Araunah said to David, "Let my lord the king take whatever pleases him and offer it up. Here are oxen for the burnt offering, and here are threshing sledges and ox yokes for the wood. O king, Araunah gives all this to the king.’ Araunah also said to him, ‘May the LORD your God accept you.’ But the king replied to Araunah, ‘No, I insist on paying you for it. I will not sacrifice to the LORD my God burnt offerings that cost me nothing.’ So David bought the threshing floor and the oxen and paid fifty shekels of silver for them. David built an altar to the LORD there and sacrificed burnt offerings and fellowship offerings. Then the LORD answered prayer in behalf of the land, and the plague on Israel was stopped." 2 Samuel 24:18-25

"Three times a year Solomon sacrificed burnt offerings and fellowship offerings on the altar he had built for the LORD, burning incense before the LORD along with them, and so fulfilled the temple obligations." 1 Kings 9:25

We even have one example of a Levitical priest who is crowned as ruler!

"Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, you and your friends who sit before you, for they are men who are a sign: behold, I will bring my servant the Branch. For behold, on the stone that I have set before Joshua, on a single stone with seven eyes, I will engrave its inscription, declares the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of this land in a single day." Zephaniah 3:8-9

"And the word of the LORD came to me: 'Take from the exiles Heldai, Tobijah, and Jedaiah, who have arrived from Babylon, and go the same day to the house of Josiah, the son of Zephaniah. Take from them silver and gold, and make a crown, and set it on the head of Joshua, the son of Jehozadak, the high priest. And say to him, "Thus says the LORD of hosts, 'Behold, the man whose name is the Branch: for he shall branch out from his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD. It is he who shall build the temple of the LORD and shall bear royal honor, and shall sit and rule on his throne. And there shall be a priest on his throne, and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.'"'" Zechariah 6:9-13

Joshua the high priest, not Zerubbabel the governor, is crowned and seated on the throne, even though God had sworn that rulership would be given to David and his seed! Joshua is also said to be a sign, a symbol of the Branch, a title which even rabbis recognized as a name for the coming King Messiah!

Hence, just as there were exceptions to the general principle of priests having to be descendants of Levi, or that rulers would be from David's line, the Hebrew Scriptures also provide a few exceptions to the general principle that tribal affiliation and inheritance must be determined from the male side. We will be illustrating this point shortly.

For more on David and his sons functioning as priests, please read the following article: http://answering-islam.org/Responses/Menj/atonement2.htm

b) Joseph could never pass on by adoption that which he doesn’t have.  Because Joseph descended from Jeconiah (Mat. 1:11) he fell under the curse of that king that none of his descendants could ever sit as king upon the throne of David.  (Jeremiah 22:30; 36:30).

RESPONSE:

It is obvious that neither Osama, nor the Jews for Judaism website, have bothered reading the passages carefully. The citations do not state that the curse of Jeconiah was indefinite, but rather that it would be in affect only during his own lifetime:

"As I live, saith HaShem, though Coniah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah were the signet upon My right hand, yet would I pluck thee thence; and I will give thee into the hand of them that seek thy life, and into the hand of them of whom thou art afraid, even into the hand of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, and into the hand of the Chaldeans. And I will cast thee out, and thy mother that bore thee, into another country, where ye were not born; and there shall ye die. But to the land whereunto they long to return, thither shall they not return. Is this man Coniah a despised, broken image? Is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? Wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into the land which they know not? O land, land, land, hear the word of HaShem. Thus saith HaShem: Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper IN HIS DAYS; for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah." Jeremiah 22:24-30 Jewish Publication Society (JPS)

The passage explicitly says that none of his offspring would prosper, nor would any of his sons assume the throne, in his days. It doesn’t say that this would be something which would last forever. There is further evidence establishing that the curse would only be in affect during his lifetime. God says that even though Jeconiah were his signet ring he would cast him off. Yet, in regards to Jeconiah’s grandson, Zerubbabel, God makes the following comments:

"In that day, saith HaShem of hosts, will I take thee, O Zerubbabel, My servant, the son of Shealtiel, saith HaShem, and will make thee as a signet; for I have chosen thee, saith HaShem of hosts." Haggai 2:23 JPS

God addresses Zerubbabel as his signet ring and even affirms that he had been chosen to be God’s servant! This is clearly a reversal of the curse which was put upon Jeconiah. or at least a direct proof that the curse wasn't intended to be indefinite. Lest the Jews for Judaism website accuse us of distorting the Hebrew Scriptures, here is what even their own official Jewish sources say:

"R. Johanan said: Exile atones for everything, for it is written, Thus saith the Lord, write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days, for no man of his seed shall prosper sitting upon the throne of David and ruling any more in Judah. (Jer. XXII, 30). Whereas after he [the king] was exiled, it is written, And the sons of Jechoniah, — the same is Assir — Shealtiel his son etc. (1 Chr. III, 17)33. [He was called] Assir, (Imprisoned) because his mother conceived him in prison. Shealtiel, because God did not plant him in the way that others are planted. We know by tradition that a woman cannot conceive in a standing position. [yet she did conceive standing. Another interpretation: Shealtiel, because God obtained [of the Heavenly court] absolution from His oath.4 Zerubbabel [was so called] because he was sown in Babylon. But [his real name was] Nehemiah the son of Hachaliah. (Sanhedrin 37b-38a)

Footnotes
33. I Ch. III, 17. Notwithstanding the curse that he should be childless and not prosper, after being exiled he was forgiven.
4. Which He had made, to punish Jechoniah with childlessness."
Sanhedrin 37b - 38a, Soncino Talmud Edition

And, we read in Leviticus Rabbah XIX:6 (5th-6th c.):

R. Shabbethai said: He [Jeconiah] did not move thence before the Holy One, blessed be He, pardoned him all his sins. Referring to this occasion Scripture has said: Thou art all fair, my love, and there is no blemish in thee (S.S. IV, 7). A Heavenly Voice went forth and said to them: 'Return, ye backsliding children, I will heal your backslidings' (Jer. III, 22). (Soncino Midrash Rabbah vol. 4, p. 249)

The Jewish Encyclopedia records:

Jehoiachin's sad experiences changed his nature entirely, and as he repented of the sins which he had committed as king he was pardoned by God, who REVOKED the decree to the effect that none of his descendants should ever become king (Jer. xxii. 30; Pesik., ed. Buber, xxv. 163a, b); he even became the ancestor of the Messiah (Tan., Toledot, 20 [ed. Buber, i. 140]). It was especially his firmness in fulfilling the Law that restored him to God's favor. He was kept by Nebuchadnezzar in solitary confinement, and as he was therefore separated from his wife, the Sanhedrin, which had been expelled with him to Babylon, feared that at the death of this queen the house of David would become extinct. (Source; bold and underline emphasis ours)

Other sources even state that the Messiah will actually be a descendant of Jeconiah through the line of his grandson Zerubbabel! For instance, Tanhuma Genesis, Toledot (8th-9th c.) says:

Scripture alludes here to the verse Who art thou, O great mountain before Zerubbabel? Thou shalt become a plain (Zech. 4:7). This verse refers to the Messiah, the descendant of David. . . .From whom will the Messiah descend? From Zerubbabel. (Midrash Tanhuma-Yelammedenu, translated by Samuel A. Berman [Hoboken, NJ: Ktav, 1996], p. 182)

The following rabbi, A. J. Rosenberg, made these comments on Jeremiah 22:24:

Malbim [Meir Loeb ben Jehiel Michale, 19th century rabbi and commentator] calls to our attention that in the prophecy of Haggai (2:23), God says, "On that day I will take you, Zerubbabel, and I will make you like a signet," for the King Messiah will be like a signet ring on God's right hand, so to speak. Just as the name of the owner of the ring is engraved on his signet ring, through which he makes himself known, so will God's name be known in the world through the King Messiah, through whom His miracles will be known. He says here that, though, in the future, Coniah will be the signet on My right hand, for the Messiah will spring from his seed, now I will remove him from there. (Ibid., p. 183; comments within brackets ours)

It is rather apparent that the official Jewish view, or at least one widely held by various rabbis, is that Jeconiah was forgiven and the curse had been reversed.

They continue:

To answer this difficult problem, apologists claim that Jesus traces himself back to King David through his mother Mary, who allegedly descends from David, as shown in the third chapter of Luke.  There are four basic problems with this claim:

a] There is no evidence that Mary descends from David.  The third chapter of Luke traces Joseph’s genealogy, not Mary’s.

RESPONSE:

Contrary to the above claims, the evidence is quite strong that Mary descends from David. First, the NT Scriptures teach that Jesus was born from a virgin by the power of the Holy Spirit. Second, Jesus is consistently called the Son of David, and is said to be from the line of David:

"And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, 'Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon.'" Matthew 15:22

"And they came to Jericho. And as he was leaving Jericho with his disciples and a great crowd, Bartimaeus, a blind beggar, the son of Timaeus, was sitting by the roadside. And when he heard that it was Jesus of Nazareth, he began to cry out and say, 'Jesus, Son of David, have mercy on me!' And many rebuked him, telling him to be silent. But he cried out all the more, 'Son of David, have mercy on me!'" Mark 10:46-48

"In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth, to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin's name was Mary. And he came to her and said, 'Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!' But she was greatly troubled at the saying, and tried to discern what sort of greeting this might be. And the angel said to her, 'Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus. He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God will give to him the throne of HIS FATHER David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.' And Mary said to the angel, 'How will this be, since I am a virgin?' And the angel answered her, 'The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy--the Son of God.'" Luke 1:26-35

"Blessed be the Lord God of Israel, for he has visited and redeemed his people and has raised up a horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David," Luke 1:68-69

Compare the following with the above citation:

"For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord." Luke 2:11

"And when he had removed him, he raised up David to be their king, of whom he testified and said, 'I have found in David the son of Jesse a man after my heart, who will do all my will.' Of this man's offspring God has brought to Israel a Savior, Jesus, as he promised." Acts 13:22-23

Additional passages include:

"For David says concerning him, ... Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says, 'The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.'" Acts 2:25a, 30-35

"concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 1:3-4

"Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, the offspring of David, as preached in my gospel," 2 Timothy 2:8

"And one of the elders said to me, 'Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.'" Revelation 5:5

"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant [offspring] of David, the bright morning star." Revelation 22:16

Since Jesus had no earthly father, this must mean that he traces his lineage to David through his mother's side, indicating that Mary was an actual descendant of David. Hence, Mary's lineage to David isn't necessarily dependent on Luke's genealogy, but on the clear biblical witness that her virgin born Son was from David's bloodline, a line which he could have only received from her.

b] Even if Mary can trace herself back to David, that doesn’t help Jesus, since tribal affiliation goes only through the father, not mother.  Cf. Num. 1:18; Ezra 2:59.

RESPONSE:

Again, this is an incorrect statement since the Hebrew Scriptures provide examples where a person's line continues through his daughters, that tribal affiliation is determined by the female side in cases where there are no sons:

"Then drew near the daughters of Zelophehad the son of Hepher, son of Gilead, son of Machir, son of Manasseh, from the clans of Manasseh the son of Joseph. The names of his daughters were: Mahlah, Noah, Hoglah, Milcah, and Tirzah. And they stood before Moses and before Eleazar the priest and before the chiefs and all the congregation, at the entrance of the tent of meeting, saying, 'Our father died in the wilderness. He was not among the company of those who gathered themselves together against the LORD in the company of Korah, but died for his own sin. And he had no sons. Why should the name of our father be taken away from his clan because he had no son? Give to us a possession among our father's brothers.' Moses brought their case before the LORD. And the LORD said to Moses, 'The daughters of Zelophehad are right. You shall give them possession of an inheritance among their father's brothers and transfer the inheritance of their father to them. And you shall speak to the people of Israel, saying, "If a man dies and has no son, then you shall transfer his inheritance to his daughter. And if he has no daughter, then you shall give his inheritance to his brothers. And if he has no brothers, then you shall give his inheritance to his father's brothers. And if his father has no brothers, then you shall give his inheritance to the nearest kinsman of his clan, and he shall possess it. And it shall be for the people of Israel a statute and rule, as the LORD commanded Moses."'" Numbers 27:1-9; cf. 36:1-12

Having no sons to preserve the family's inheritance, Zelophehad's daughters would insure that their father's inheritance remained within his line through their children. In other words, Zelophehad's daughters could pass on the lineage and inheritance of their father to their children, regardless of the tribal affiliation of their husbands.

And:

"The sons of Judah: Er, Onan and Shelah; these three Bath-shua the Canaanite bore to him. Now Er, Judah's firstborn, was evil in the sight of the LORD, and he put him to death. His daughter-in-law Tamar also bore him Perez and Zerah. Judah had five sons in all. … The sons of Nadab: Seled and Appaim; and Seled died childless. The son of Appaim: Ishi. The son of Ishi: Sheshan. The son of Sheshan: Ahlai. The sons of Jada, Shammai's brother: Jether and Jonathan; and Jether died childless. The sons of Jonathan: Peleth and Zaza. These were the descendants of Jerahmeel. Now Sheshan had no sons, only daughters, but Sheshan had an Egyptian slave whose name was Jarha. So Sheshan gave his daughter in marriage to Jarha his slave, and she bore him Attai. Attai fathered Nathan, and Nathan fathered Zabad." 1 Chronicles 2:3-4, 30-37

Here was a descendant of Judah, the same tribe from which David sprung, who's line continued through his daughter, through his son-in-law, since he had no sons of his own. In other words, Sheshan's future descendants traced their Judean line through the female side, Sheshan's daughter!

The final example is Naomi and her Moabite daughter-in-law Ruth. Naomi's husband and two sons died, having no children. Ruth decided to stay with her mother-in-law and, finding Naomi's kinsmen redeemer, tried to preserve her deceased father-in-law's name and inheritance:

"Now Boaz had gone up to the gate and sat down there. And behold, the redeemer, of whom Boaz had spoken, came by. So Boaz said, 'Turn aside, friend; sit down here.' And he turned aside and sat down. And he took ten men of the elders of the city and said, "Sit down here." So they sat down. Then he said to the redeemer, 'Naomi, who has come back from the country of Moab, is selling the parcel of land that belonged to our relative Elimelech. So I thought I would tell you of it and say, "Buy it in the presence of those sitting here and in the presence of the elders of my people." If you will redeem it, redeem it. But if you will not, tell me, that I may know, for there is no one besides you to redeem it, and I come after you.' And he said, 'I will redeem it.' Then Boaz said, 'The day you buy the field from the hand of Naomi, you also acquire Ruth the Moabite, the widow of the dead, in order to perpetuate the name of the dead in his inheritance.' Then the redeemer said, 'I cannot redeem it for myself, lest I impair my own inheritance. Take my right of redemption yourself, for I cannot redeem it.' Now this was the custom in former times in Israel concerning redeeming and exchanging: to confirm a transaction, the one drew off his sandal and gave it to the other, and this was the manner of attesting in Israel. 8So when the redeemer said to Boaz, 'Buy it for yourself,' he drew off his sandal. Then Boaz said to the elders and all the people, 'You are witnesses this day that I have bought from the hand of Naomi all that belonged to Elimelech and all that belonged to Chilion and to Mahlon. Also Ruth the Moabite, the widow of Mahlon, I have bought to be my wife, to perpetuate the name of the dead in his inheritance, that the name of the dead may not be cut off from among his brothers and from the gate of his native place. You are witnesses this day.' Then all the people who were at the gate and the elders said, 'We are witnesses. May the LORD make the woman, who is coming into your house, like Rachel and Leah, who together built up the house of Israel. May you act worthily in Ephrathah and be renowned in Bethlehem, and may your house be like the house of Perez, whom Tamar bore to Judah, because of the offspring that the LORD will give you by this young woman.' So Boaz took Ruth, and she became his wife. And he went in to her, and the LORD gave her conception, and she bore a son. Then the women said to Naomi, 'Blessed be the LORD, who has not left you this day without a redeemer, and may his name be renowned in Israel! He shall be to you a restorer of life and a nourisher of your old age, for your daughter-in-law who loves you, who is more to you than seven sons, has given birth to him." Then Naomi took the child and laid him on her lap and became his nurse. And the women of the neighborhood gave him a name, saying, 'A SON HAS BEEN BORN TO NAOMI.' They named him Obed. He was the father of Jesse, the father of David. Now these are the generations of Perez: Perez fathered Hezron, Hezron fathered Ram, Ram fathered Amminadab, Amminadab fathered Nahshon, Nahshon fathered Salmon, Salmon fathered Boaz, Boaz fathered Obed, Obed fathered Jesse, and Jesse fathered David." Ruth 4:1-22

A gentile woman marries a gentleman from the tribe of Judah in order to have a son from him so as to preserve her deceased first husband's family name! To top it all off, she even becomes the ancestor of king David!

These examples establish that Mary and Joseph’s pedigrees together provide Jesus with a legitimate line to the throne of his father David.

Furthermore, since Jesus was unique, being conceived supernaturally from a blessed virgin maiden, the normal rules do not apply to him. Having no earthly father as a result of his supernatural origin, Jesus' lineage would have to be traced through his mother's line. And since Osama believes in Jesus' virgin birth, he has no grounds to object to the preceding points. The only reason he would object is because the Bible, as it stands, exposes Muhammad as a false prophet since in one breath he acknowledged that Jesus is the Messiah. And, yet, at the same time, he virtually denied all that the title Messiah implies in relation to Jesus, showing that Muhammad was confused and couldn't have been a true prophet.

What makes this even more remarkable is that the Quran, Osama’s false book, agrees that one’s ancestral line can be traced through the mother’s side. For instance, the Quran says that Jesus is from the lineage of Abraham, even though he was born from a virgin, showing that Christ received his descent from Abraham through his mother’s side:

That is Our argument, which We bestowed upon Abraham as against his people. We raise up in degrees whom We will; surely thy Lord is All-wise, All-knowing. And We gave to him Isaac and Jacob -- each one We guided, And Noah We guided before; and of his seed David and Solomon, Job and Joseph, Moses and Aaron -- even so We recompense the good-doers -- Zachariah and John, Jesus and Elias; each was of the righteous; S. 6:83-85

Noted Muslim commentator Ibn Kathir wrote:

Mentioning `Isa in the offspring of Ibrahim, or Nuh as we stated above, is proof that the grandchildren from a man's daughter's side are included among his offspring. `Isa is included among Ibrahim's progeny through his mother, although `Isa did not have a father. Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Abu Harb bin Abi Al-Aswad said, "Al-Hajjaj sent to Yahya bin Ya`mar, saying, `I was told that you claim that Al-Hasan and Al-Husayn are from the offspring of the Prophet, did you find it in the Book of Allah I read the Qur'an from beginning to end and did not find it?' Yahya said, `Do you not read in Surat Al-An`am, …

<and Yahya and `Isa…>

Al-Hajjaj said, `Yes.' Yahya said, `Is not `Isa from the offspring of Ibrahim, although he did not have a father' Al-Hajjaj said, `You have said the truth.’" For example, when a man leaves behind a legacy, a trust, or gift to his "offspring'' then the children of his daughters are included. But if a man gives something to his "sons'', or he leaves a trust behind for them, then that would be particular to his male children and their male children ... (Source)

This means that if Jews for Judaism are correct then the Quran is wrong! Since Osama believes that the Quran is true, he must therefore do everything he can to disprove the claims of Jews for Judaism and defend Jesus’ legitimate descent from both Abraham and David.

c] Even if family line could go through the mother, Mary was not from a legitimate Messianic family.  According to the Bible, the Messiah must be a descendent of David through his son Solomon (II Sam. 7:14; I Chron. 17:11-14, 22:9-10, 28:4-6)  The third chapter of Luke is useless because it goes through David’s son Nathan, not Solomon.   (Luke 3:31)

RESPONSE:

We had already answered this in our very first paper on Jeremiah 23 by noting that Joseph conferred upon Christ the legal status of being his Son and Heir. This is why Jesus is often called the Son of Joseph:

"And his father and his mother marveled at what was said about him... And when his parents saw him, they were astonished. And his mother said to him, 'Son, why have you treated us so? Behold, your father and I have been searching for you in great distress.' And he said to them, 'Why were you looking for me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father's house?'" Luke 2:33, 48-49

"Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli," Luke 3:23

"Philip found Nathanael and said to him, 'We have found him of whom Moses in the Law and also the prophets wrote, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.'" John 1:45

"They said, 'Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does he now say, "I have come down from heaven"?'" John 6:42

Nothing stated by Jews for Judaism challenges the historical evidence that an adopted son was given the same rights as a biological one, i.e. inheritance, family name etc. Recall in our original paper that we even cited Jewish sources affirming this point.

d] Luke 3:27 lists Shealtiel and Zerubbabel in his genealogy.  These two also appear in Matthew 1:12 as descendants of the cursed Jeconiah.  If Mary descends from them, it would also disqualify her from being a Messianic progenitor.

RESPONSE:

This point was already addressed above, so no need to repeat ourselves.

We would like to finish this particular section by highlighting one significant point that both Osama and the anti-Missionary Jews overlooked. The fact that the NT writers do not present us with a genealogy where Jesus is said to have descended from Solomon through his mother's side speaks volumes about the integrity and honesty of the biblical writers. It would have been quite easy for the writers to have simply concocted a genealogy where Mary is portrayed as a daughter of Solomon, thereby providing further legitimacy for Jesus' right to the Davidic throne and preventing anyone from questioning his Messianic credentials. Instead of finding the NT writers making it easier for themselves by giving us such a genealogy, we find two genealogies neither of which state that Jesus was a biological descendant of Solomon. The obvious reason why they didn't do this is because these writers were interested in truth, not lies, accurate reporting, not fabrications aimed at deceiving their readers. Since they knew that Jesus' mother wasn't a descendant of Solomon, but of David's other son, Nathan, they had to honestly report the facts. After all, the message that they wanted the world to hear was one that emphasized the importance of turning away from sin to the truth of God. It would have been sheer hypocrisy on their part to exhort others to truthfulness, moral purity and honesty when they themselves were making up lies to deceive people.

This gives us all the more reason to trust their writings and message that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, who died and rose again on the third day.

For further reading, we recommend the following articles:

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/fabprof4.html
http://messianicart.com/chazak/yeshua/jeconiah.htm
http://www.messianicart.com/chazak/brit/toledotyeshua.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06410a.htm

And for links and materials refuting the claims of Jewish anti-Missionaries such as Jews for Judaism, we recommend the following:

http://www.messianicart.com/chazak/
http://www.tektonics.org/guest/antianti.html
http://www.tektonics.org/qt/sigalg01.html


OSAMA, THE QURAN AND MARY'S GENEALOGY

Osama makes the major blunder of introducing the Quran's statements that Mary was Aaron's sister:

My response:

First of all, no where in the Noble Quran does it say that Jesus had to be from the blood line of David peace be upon both of them.  In fact, according to the Noble Quran, when Mary came back to her people with baby Jesus peace be upon both of them, they called her "O sister of Aaron":

"O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste!  (The Noble Quran, 19:28)"

Aaron was Moses' brother, peace be upon both of them.  The "sister of" is metaphoric exactly as "Jesus is the son of David" in the New Testament.

RESPONSE:

We are glad for the fact that Osama realizes that the Aaron spoken of in Surah 19:28 is the brother of Moses. The Quran most emphatically teaches that Jesus’ mother Mary is Moses’ sister! Compare the following biblical and quranic passages:

Behold! The wife of Imran (Amram) said, "O my Lord! I do dedicate unto thee what is in my womb"… When she was delivered, she said: "O my Lord! Behold! I am delivered of a female child… I have named her Mary ..." S. 3:35-36

"And Mary the daughter of Imran, who guarded her chastity…" Sura 66:12

"… They said: O Mary! Truly an amazing thing hast thou brought! O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a man of evil, nor thy mother a woman unchaste." Sura 19:27-28

"Then Mary (Mariam), the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took the timbrel in her hand ..." Exodus 15:20

"The name of Amram's wife was Jochebed, the daughter of Levi, who was born to Levi in Egypt; and to Amram she bore Aaron and Moses and their sister Miriam." Numbers 27:59

According to the Quran, Mary's father is given the same name of the father of Moses and Aaron in the Hebrew Bible! There can be no doubt that the author of the Quran erroneously thought that Jesus’ mother was the literal, biological sister of Moses and Aaron, despite the fact that these folks lived nearly 1500 years apart from each other!

Osama’s claim that the phrase "sister of" is metaphoric, likening it to the expression "son of" or "daughter of" in reference to lineage does not hold any weight. Yet Osama isn’t alone in making this egregious error, since Muhammad made a similar mistake:

Mughirah ibn Shu’bah reported: "When I came to Najran, they (the Christians of Najran) asked me: You read `sister of Harun' (i.e., Mary), in the Quran, whereas Moses was born well before Jesus. When I came back to Allah's Messenger I asked him about that, and he said: `The (people of old age) used to give names (to their persons) after the names of Apostles and pious persons who had gone before them.'" (Sahih Muslim, Book 25, Number 5326)

The problem with these assertions is that the Jews before, during, and after the time of Christ never used this phrase in this manner at all. The Holy Bible never uses the phrase "sister of" or "brother of" when referencing a person’s ancestry or lineage. In fact, one will not find a single reference from the Jewish literature before or after Christ, including the Jewish Talmud and Targums, to support Muhammad's assertion. This is simply a gross error which cannot be swept away.

As Osama indirectly pointed out, the expression or term used in reference to a person’s lineage is what we find in the Holy Bible, i.e. "son" or "daughter of."

"So ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan has bound - think of it - for eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath'?" Luke 13:16

"And Jesus said to him, 'Today salvation has come to this house, because he also is a son of Abraham." Luke 19:9

"And behold, two blind men sitting by the road, when they heard that Jesus was passing by, cried out, saying, 'Have mercy on us, O Lord, Son of David.'" Matthew 20:30

The Quran itself does not use the expression "sister" or "brother of" to refer to ascendancy or lineage. In fact, the Quran uses this expression in connection to tribal affiliation, or to one who is contemporary with the group to which he or she belongs. Note for instance the following citations:

"And to 'Ad (people We sent) their brother HŻd. He said, `O my people! Worship All‚h! You have no other Il‚h (God) but Him. Certainly, you do nothing but invent (lies)!’" S. 11:50, cf. 7:65

"And to ThamŻd (people, We sent) their brother S‚lih. He said: `O my people! Worship All‚h, you have no other Il‚h (God) but Him. He brought you forth from the earth and settled you therein, then ask forgiveness of Him and turn to Him in repentance. Certainly, my Lord is Near (to all by His Knowledge), Responsive.’" S. 11:61, cf. 7:73, 27:45

"And to the Madyan (Midian) people (We sent) their brother Shu'aib. He said: `O my people! Worship All‚h, you have no other Il‚h (God) but Him, and give not short measure or weight, I see you in prosperity; and verily I fear for you the torment of a Day encompassing.’" S. 11:84, cf. 7:85; 29:36

Salih, Shu'aib and Hud are called "brother" by their contemporary tribes. It does not speak of ancestors who lived long before these prophets existed. Hence, to say that Mary was "the sister of Aaron" strongly suggests that the Quran places Jesus’ mother at the time of Aaron and Moses!

More importantly, by arguing that Jesus is from a priestly line, Osama has only managed to provide further evidence why the Quran is a false book. Since both the Old and New Testaments agree that the Jewish Messiah must be from the line of David, then this proves that Muhammad was a false prophet and the Quran is mistaken since they are contradicting the very Scriptures which both testify to be the Word of God!


OSAMA ON NATIONAL ISRAEL

Osama talks about God substituting the nation of Israel with Muslims, which is a lie. Muslims are not true believers in the true God. The biblical teaching is not that God has replaced Israel, but that God has extended his covenant blessings to include both Jews and Gentiles together as one community through faith in the Lord Jesus:

"Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called 'the uncircumcision' by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands -- remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now IN Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments and ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility. And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit." Ephesians 2:11-22

Thus, it is not a matter of being a member of national Israel, or of living in the land of Israel, but it is a matter of being part of God's Church, which is spiritual Israel, who's citizenship is heavenly Jerusalem:

"For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave woman and one by a free woman. But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. Now this may be interpreted allegorically: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother." Galatians 4:22-26

"But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel." Hebrews 12:22-24

"But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God's people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy." 1 Peter 2:9-10

"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, 'Behold, the dwelling place of God is with man. He will dwell with them, and they will be his people, and God himself will be with them as their God. He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.' ... Then came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues and spoke to me, saying, 'Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.' And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God, its radiance like a most rare jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. It had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed-- on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." Revelation 21:1-4, 9-14

Osama complains that God is not stuck with Israel, which is true. God is not stuck with anyone, since he owes nothing to anyone. God out of his own free will and infinite love has chosen to commit himself to the promises he has freely made to national Israel and his Church. And since God is immutable, he doesn't revoke or go back on his word.

"God is not man, that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should change his mind. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?" Numbers 23:19

"The LORD has sworn and will not change His mind, 'You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek.'" Psalm 110:4

"For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed." Malachi 3:6

"Lest you be wise in your own conceits, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, 'The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob'; 'and this will be my covenant with them when I take away their sins.' As regards the gospel, they are enemies of God for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable." Romans 11:25-29

"So when God desired to show more convincingly to the heirs of the promise the UNCHANGEABLE character of his purpose, he guaranteed it with an oath, so that by two UNCHANGEABLE things, in which it is IMPOSSIBLE for God to lie, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us." Hebrews 6:17-18

"Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1:17

What is most strange about Osama's position is that his comments contradict the Quran and confuses ethnicity with religiosity. For instance, he says:

GOD Almighty is NOT STUCK with the Jews.  Yes, He Praised them in the Old Testament, but like I said, He is NOT STUCK with them.  He did substitute them with the Muslims, who truly Worship Him and Prostrate to Him and Glorify Him Properly and Fully.

But according to the Quran, all the true believers of the past were Muslims (Cf. S. 2:127-128, 2:132-133; 3:52; 5:111; 22:78), which means that all of the Israelite believers were also Muslims if they were true worshipers. Therefore, how can God replace the Israelites with Muslims when even the Israelites were suppose to have been Muslims? Is Osama insinuating that the Quran is wrong for saying that the true Israelite worshipers were Muslims before Muhammad? Osama fails to note that one can be a Jew, an Israelite, and a Muslim at the same time, which means that if the Quran is right then God hasn't replaced the Jews with anyone. But rather, God's blessings are not limited solely to the Israelites but now includes anyone who has true faith, which the Quran erroneously assumes is Islam. In other words, the Quran is actually in agreement with the Holy Bible that the Jews haven't been replaced, but rather God has expanded his sphere of blessings and covenant relations to include others besides the nation of Israel. Where the Quran gets it wrong is to assert that the true faith before God is Islam, which it is not.


OSAMA AND HEBREW NAMES

Osama writes:

3-  As to his name being called "Jehovah our Righteousness", again, the Bible and the Jews' traditions and names are filled with GODLY names that were given to people.  Let's look at the following few names:

(a)  Elijah.  This name is short for EliJehovah or Eli Yahweh.  Eli means my GOD, and Yahweh is the name and title of GOD Almighty in the Bible.  Does "Eli Yahweh" or Elijah mean that the person is Jehovah Himself?

(b)  Gedaliah means "Jehovah is Great".  Again, Gedaliah is short for "Gedal Yahweh".  Is the person who was called "Jehovah is Great" GOD Almighty Himself?  We'll let Sam Shamoun answer this for us.

For more examples and proofs, please visit: The "God" title in the Bible was given to others in the OT and NT.  Answering Isaiah 9:6.  The "El" (God) title that was given to Jesus in the Old Testament, and the "HOTHEOS" (God) title in the New Testament, were given to others before and after Jesus in the Bible.  The only UNIQUE title that exists in the Bible is "Yahweh", which means "The Eternal".

And:

My response:

Thank you for helping further prove my point.  While Zedekiah the king was not righteous, but the name itself refutes your trinity lie, because Yawheh Zedekiah is the same as "Yahweh tsidkenŻ" as you put it.  Shamoun's entire argument is based on the fact that the Hebrew names are shortened, while the Messiah's name isn't.  This is quite silly, because it is only natural for people to shorten the too long names if they could!

Isn't today's Michael shortened as "Mike" and Samuel shortened as "Sam"?

RESPONSE:

Osama repeated essentially this same point a total of seven times in his "rebuttal"! Not only that, but he basically ignored my points and chose to attack a straw man, so we will be very short here. Contrary to Osama's assertion, my entire argument wasn't based on the fact that the word Yahweh as part of Hebrew names is shortened, unlike the Messiah's, but there was much more to it. As I said, an indication that the title in Jeremiah 23:6, "Yahweh our Righteousness", isn't intended to be a description of the God whom the King served but is rather a description of the King himself, was that the name Yahweh isn't abbreviated. Normally, the word Yahweh is abbreviated when forming part of a person's name. This is a strong indication that the inspired author was trying to show that God's own covenant name is applied to the Davidic King in a special and different manner from the others, that there is something unique about the Messiah. I went on to provide further evidence showing that the title is a description of the King by noting that the passage explicitly says that the King is righteous and acts righteously. Here, again, is the passage to help bring this point out more clearly:

"... a RIGHTEOUS Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and RIGHTEOUSNESS in the land ... And this is the name by which he will be called: ‘The LORD is our RIGHTEOUSNESS.’" Jeremiah 23:5-6

This shows that it is the King who is Yahweh our Righteousness since he is the One who is and does what is righteous, ushering in righteousness for all of God's people.

Furthermore, the Messiah's name and Zedekiah are not completely identical since one is called Yahweh tsidkenŻ and the other is tsidkiyahŻ. As one can see the word Yah appears at the end of the latter name and is more literally translated as "My (singular) righteousness is Yahweh." Additionally, the latter name is intended to convey to the people that the king's vindicator is suppose to be Yahweh, and no one else. But, as I also stated, the name Zedekiah cannot be a description of the king, not so much because the name for Yahweh is abbreviated, but because of what the Bible also says about the wickedness and evil characteristics of this particular king. Therefore, this king could not be Yahweh who is righteous since he was anything but pure and righteous in God's sight. It must be a name of the God whom this wicked ruler was suppose to serve and reflect.

The Messiah's name, on other hand, is "Yahweh OUR Righteousness," plural, further indicating that this is not a title describing whom the Messianic King serves, but a reference to him as the One to whom God's people look to for their vindication and redemption.

To make it easier for Osama to prove me wrong, here is our challenge to him:

1. Since you claim that these are common, everyday names which the Jews give to each other, please produce one example where a person is given all the names found in Isaiah 9:6. Show us any child whose name is Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, and Prince of Peace.

2. Please produce another verse where someone else is called Yahweh our Righteousness, or Yahweh TsidkenŻ. We want a reference where someone besides the Messiah is called exactly by this name.

We won't be holding our breath for any bonafide answers from Osama, that's for sure.


OSAMA ON TRANSLATORS

Osama repeats his false accusations against Bible translators and tries to defend the various (mis)translations of the Quran:

My response:

The Arabic Noble Quran is only one.  There are no versions for it.  It is only stupid and crazy from you to expect all English translations to be exactly the same.  Writers are humans and they write in different styles and use different words that mean the same thing (such as lucky and fortunate; war and battle; sad and upset; etc....) in their writings.

What I am talking about here is not simple differences in English translations, but rather clear and deliberate deceptions and lies made by the trinitarian translators to prove the polytheist trinity paganism lie.  Big difference.

Osama also says:

My response:

I am not GOD Almighty.  There are many Bible believers such as Jews and Jehovah Witnesses and other Unitarians fully agree with my position.  So the utter nonsense that you spoke above is baseless.  Yes, your trinitarian translators are deceivers [sic] and liars, because they twist and play with "El" and "Elohim" and "HOTHEOS", which are titles that were given to others before and after Jesus in the Bible, but yet, the liars lower the "g" for them and capitalize it for Jesus.

RESPONSE:

First, Osama is lying about there being no Arabic versions of the Quran, since there were and continue to be various Arabic versions in circulation. Second, the Islamic sources admit that there were different Qurans in circulation which were not completely uniform, some had more chapters and verses than others. For the evidence documenting these points, please go here: http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Text/index.html

Third, there is further evidence showing that even the English translations of the Quran are not entirely correct, nor are they uniform in their understanding of what the Arabic says. In fact, some translators even deliberately distort the text, with one English version omitting two verses from the Quran, namely 9:128-129, believing them to be later interpolations. As an illustration of distortion and mistranslation here is just one example:

So know (O Muhammad) that there is no God save Allah, and ask forgiveness for thy sin and for believing men and believing women. Allah knoweth (both) your place of turmoil and your place of rest. S. 47:19 Pickthall

The text is telling Muhammad to ask for forgiveness for his sins. Seeing that some Muslims had a problem with Muhammad being rebuked as a sinner, they then decided to distort the text:

Know, then, [O man,] that there is no deity save God, and [while there is yet time,] ask forgiveness for thy sins, - Asad

Here in Asad's version, it is no longer about Muhammad seeking forgiveness, but it is man in general who is told to ask for forgiveness!

and seek His protection and forgiveness of your (human) shortcomings - Noorudin

ask protection for thy sin, - M.M. Ali

and ask protection for thy human frailties, - Sher Ali

and, ask protection for your fault - Shakir

and beg forgiveness for your offence, - T.B. Irving

The differences between these English versions are not minor, but glaring and demonstrate the willingness of some Muslims to corrupt what they claim to be the word of God. This is just one example of the many deliberate distortions within the English versions of the Quran. For more examples like the above we suggest that our readers consult the following links:

http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Versions/index.html
http://www.submission.org/tampering.html
http://www.submission.org/suras/sura9.htm

Fourth, Osama states that Jews, Jehovah's Witnesses, Unitarians etc. agree with his point that Christian translators are dishonest in the way they handle the biblical text. Osama is constantly proving that he doesn't realize what he is saying or how his own words discredit his own position. The reason why these particular groups may agree with Osama is because they all deny that the Holy Bible teaches the Trinity. Thus, Osama assumes that these groups are correct that the Trinity is not biblical so that their opinions and views are more trustworthy than that of Trinitarian translators and scholars. The major problem with this position is that it assumes what it has yet to prove, it essentially begs the question. Osama assumes that the Trinity is not true, but has failed to prove his assertion, and on the basis of this unproven assumption takes for granted that these other anti-Trinitarian groups are correct. Osama needs to first try and prove that the Trinity is not true before he assumes it. So far, he has failed miserably in undermining the biblical basis for the doctrine of the Trinity.

More importantly, these groups mentioned by Osama would actually agree with me that Theos, El, Elohim should be translated with a smaller case g when speaking of others besides Yahweh. They would also agree that when the passages are speaking of Yahweh then these same words must be translated with a capital G. Here are a few examples taken from both the Jehovah's Witness Bible (New World Translation [NWT]) and the Jewish Publication Society's translation of the Hebrew Bible.

"And G-d spoke all these words, saying: I am HaShem thy G-d, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before Me." Exodus 20:1-3 JPS

"And God proceeded to speak all these words, saying: 'I am Jehovah your God, who have brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slaves. You must not have any other gods against my face.'" NWT

"See now that I, even I, am He, and there is no god with Me; I kill, and I make alive; I have wounded, and I heal; and there is none that can deliver out of My hand." Deuteronomy 32:39 JPS

"SEE now that I—I am he And there are no gods together with me. I put to death, and I make alive. I have severely wounded, and I—I will heal, And there is no one snatching out of my hand." NWT

"And the lords of the Philistines gathered them together to offer a great sacrifice unto Dagon their god, and to rejoice; for they said: 'Our god hath delivered Samson our enemy into our hand.'" Judges 16:23 JPS

As for the Phi∑lisītine axis lords, they gathered together to sacrifice a great sacrifice to Daīgon their god and for rejoicing, and they kept saying: "Our god has given into our hand Samson our enemy!" NWT

"There is none like unto Thee among the gods, O L-rd, and there are no works like Thine... For Thou art great, and doest wondrous things; Thou art G-d alone." Psalm 86:8,10 JPS

"There is none like you among the gods, O Jehovah, Neither are there any works like yours... For you are great and are doing wondrous things; You are God, you alone." NWT

"among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, that the illumination of the glorious good news about the Christ, who is the image of God, might not shine through." 2 Corinthians 4:4 NWT

The main difference some of these groups will have is with passages applying Theos, El, or Elohim to the Lord Jesus or (for unbelieving Jews) the Messiah, i.e. whether they believe that the Bible teaches that Jesus or the Messiah is God in the sense of being Yahweh God or whether he is like the others that are called god. If they believe the former, then they will render these words with a capital G, but if the latter then they will retain the smaller case g. Now obviously, these groups don't believe that Jesus is God in the sense of being Yahweh, or that the Trinity is biblical, nor do many of the unbelieving orthodox Jews accept that Messiah is Deity, and so their translations will therefore reflect this position. But since Protestant Evangelical, conservative Catholic and Orthodox translators all believe in the Holy Trinity, being convinced that this is the clear teaching of the Holy Bible, it shouldn't be surprising that they would capitalize the G when texts refer to Christ or the Holy Spirit as God. And since they also believe that there is only one true eternal God, it shouldn't surprise us that they will retain the lower case g in passages where others besides Yahweh are called El, Elohim, Theos etc.

In other words, there is no deception or conspiracy behind the motives of Christian translators, but the wholehearted conviction that the Holy Bible establishes the doctrine of the Trinity, that there is only one true eternal God, Yahweh, who exists in three eternally distinct, yet inseparable Persons. All others are not gods in the same sense that Yahweh is.


OSAMA ON WISHFUL THINKING

Osama concludes with some wishful hopes:

My Conclusion:

Sam Shamoun had miserably failed again to prove the polytheist trinity pagan lie.   He not only twisted the metaphoric meaning of some verses which had been proven without doubt (as shown above) that they are metaphoric since people and even cities in the Bible were called these names and titles, but he also LIED as I proved above in Hebrews 1:9, and deliberately twisted the verses he quoted to fool his reader.

Sam Shamoun and the likes of him from the polytheist pagans are guilty of blasphemy, because they had profaned GOD Almighty's Holy Name and raised Jesus' name (a creation of GOD Almighty) above the Almighty's Holy Name.

I pray that Sam Shamoun repents and come back to his senses before it is too late for him.

RESPONSE:

We trust that our readers can see who in fact miserably failed to prove their point. Osama has shown that he doesn't know what a metaphor really is, and has done all he can to twist and distort the Holy Bible's clear teaching regarding God's glorious Triunity, but to no avail. His rebuttals, far from exposing us as liars, only managed to strengthen the soundness of our exegesis (due solely to the grace of the Triune God). We demonstrated how Hebrews 1:9 does nothing to refute what the chapter as a whole says about the Lord Jesus, but actually establishes that he is fully God. Osama's appeal to Hebrews 1:9 managed to provide further evidence that he has no business trying to do exegesis on the Bible, nor does he have any right trying to explain the meaning of the Quran, since he constantly distorts the teachings of his own false book as well!

The truth be told, the real blasphemer and pagan polytheist is Osama, for worshiping a pagan god whom a false prophet named Muhammad tried to pass off as the true God of the Holy Bible. On the basis of the lies and deception of this one false prophet, Osama continues to hurl utter blasphemy after blasphemy against the one true, Triune God of creation, Yahweh, and insults the eternal Son of God by trying to reduce him to the level of a mere creature.

And we, too, pray, that Osama repents from worshiping a nonexistent deity, and from trusting in a false prophet. We hope that God opens his blind eyes and grants him repentance from the lies of Islam, and enables him to turn to his glorious truth as found in God's only revealed Scriptures, the Holy Bible. After all, Islam is a killer of a person's soul and to follow its teachings is to follow a straight path to eternal destruction. It is only by trusting in Christ can a person be saved from the wrath to come:

"And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12

"For they themselves report concerning us the kind of reception we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come." 1 Thessalonians 1:9-10

"and to grant relief to you who are afflicted as well as to us, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at among all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed." 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10

Amen. Come Lord Jesus, come. We know and profess that you are God's eternal Son, the risen Lord of immortal glory. And by your sovereign grace, we will continue to love and worship you for ever and ever, O blessed Savior. Amen.


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