A Muslim Apologist Meets Our Challenge

Analyzing One Dawagandist’s Attempt at Humor

Sam Shamoun

One of Osama Abdallah’s writers, Yahya Ahmed, has taken up the task of answering (*) the challenges I set forth to Muslims to show where in the Quran did Muhammad ever say he was a prophet and where does the Quran refer to the exact number and the names of the surahs that Allah sent down (*).

The author made the rather arrogant assertion that:

These challenges do more harm to him and Christianity than any good.

Let us see if the author was able to show whether my challenges did more harm to my own case and against the Christian faith.

The writer explains why Muslims insist upon bringing a text from Jesus where he says " I am God" or "worship me" by quoting Sami Zaatari’s article (*), which has been refuted here, as well as in these places: [1], [2]

Later in the rebuttal we will be using Zaatari’s own words to refute Mr. Ahmed.

In response to my assertion that Muslim apologists often question the canon of the Bible, believing that it is the work of fallible Church councils and clergy, Mr. Ahmed says:

I wonder which Muslim asked you this. In my experience, I have not come across a Muslim who asks the Christians to produce a list of all the books in the Bible. It would have been good if he had mentioned any Muslim who asks such a thing, especially if he is an author on Answering-Christianity.

Mr. Ahmed is guilty of the fallacies of ad ignorantium (*) and of hasty generalization (*). Just because he hasn’t come across someone who has raised this as an objection against the authority of the Holy Bible doesn’t mean that there haven’t been Muslims who have used such an argument. It simply means that the author happens to be ignorant of the facts, that he hasn’t studied enough to know that there have been and continue to be Muslims who use this as a criticism against the veracity of the Holy Bible. In fact, the following Muslims have all raised the issue of the Biblical canon as a means of casting doubt in the minds of people regarding its authenticity: Ahmad Deedat, Hamza Abdul Malik, Jamal Badawi, just to name a few.

What makes this rather amusing is that Mr. Ahmed himself will bring up a similar objection against the canon of the Holy Bible! Later in this same article he says:

But the Christians cannot even tell us for sure how many books are there in the Bible. This will result into a heated debate between the Protestants and the Catholics. Catholics believe in 73 books where as the Protestants in only 66!!

We encourage the readers to consult the following articles and judge for themselves whether Christians have and can present evidence to support what God’s inspired collection of books is: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6]

Moreover, Ahmed’s criticism of the canon of the Bible only solidifies my case that Muslims are inconsistent since they will not apply the same standard of argumentation against their scriptures. More on this later.

Meeting his first challenge. Where Muhammad (pbuh) says in the Quran "I am a Prophet of Allah" or "Allah has made me a Prophet"

First of all, Quran is not the word of Muhammad (pbuh). How can he say in the Quran that "I am a Prophet of God".

In the Quran God commands Muhammad (pbuh) to say anything [sic].

Notice how the author tries to avoid answering my challenge on the grounds that the Quran is not Muhammad’s word. Here, Ahmed simply begs the question since he has erroneously assumed that the Quran is the word of God as opposed to Muhammad’s.

More importantly, whether a person believes that the Quran is Muhammad’s words or not is irrelevant to my challenge since Muhammad could still have been told to say that he was a prophet in those exact words. After all, Muslims do not believe that the Quran is the word of Jesus and yet the Muslim scripture quotes Jesus making the following assertion:

He spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet, S. 19:30 Pickthall

The Quran even commands Muhammad to say that he is a messenger and a mere mortal:

Or thou have a house of gold; or thou ascend up into heaven, and even then we will put no faith in thine ascension till thou bring down for us a book that we can read. Say (O Muhammad): My Lord be Glorified! Am I aught save a mortal messenger? S. 17:93 Pickthall

Hence, if the Quran has Jesus stating that he was a prophet and also cites Muhammad claiming to be a messenger then surely it could have quoted Muhammad saying that he was a prophet.

Realizing that he can’t answer my challenge from the Quran Mr. Ahmed turns to the hadith literature to prove his case!

There are many hadith which say so. I’ll just quote one of them here.

Volume 4, Book 53, Number 406

"Allah's Apostle said, 'O Ibn Al-Khattab! I am the apostle of allah"

This Hadith is actually sufficient to meet his challenge. But I’ll go beyond that for what he asks.

He wants a Quranic quotation.

In the first place, this fails to meet my challenge since I didn’t ask for quotes from secondary sources which were written centuries after the death of Muhammad. The fact that the author needed to consult these late documents only proves that he cannot meet my challenge from the Quran itself.

Secondly, it is rather obvious that Mr. Ahmed hasn’t read my article carefully since I didn’t ask him to show me where Muhammad said he was Allah’s apostle or messenger. Rather, I clearly said that I wanted Muslims to show me where he said he was Allah’s prophet. So Mr. Ahmed has failed on both counts.

Ahmed now tries to show that Q. 7:158-159 is referring to Muhammad, that he is the one claiming to be Allah’s prophet, and manages to introduce some additional fallacies in the process.

Verses 157-158 are referring to Muhammad (pbuh)

This story of Moses (pbuh) starts in this chapter from verse 103. Moses (pbuh) had already said to the Pharaoh that is is[sic] God’s apostle.

104. Moses said: "O Pharaoh! I am an apostle from the Lord of the worlds,- (Quran 7:104)

Verse 157 says

Yusuf Ali:

[007:157] "Those who follow the apostle, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel

Pickthall:

[007:157]  Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel (which are) with

them.

Was Moses (pbuh) unlettered? According to the Christians, he is the author of the Pentateuch i.e. Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.

Note the straw man argument. Nowhere did I say that Moses was the unlettered prophet. Rather, I plainly stated that this is allegedly Moses speaking (we say allegedly since the Quran does not contain the actual words of these true prophets of God) of the unlettered prophet who was to come.

How can Moses (pbuh) be mentioned in the Gospel which according to the Christians came 1000 or so years later? Or how come Jews of that time are told that Moses (pbuh) is mentioned in the Gospel which was not even sent?

Now notice the author’s circular reasoning. He assumes that the Quran is an inspired book that is free from all errors and anachronisms. Due to this erroneous assumption the author cannot imagine for a moment that the Quran could mistakenly refer to the Gospel being in the possession of the Israelites during Moses’ time.

But this is no more amazing than the Quran identifying Jesus as the nephew of Moses and Aaron! (1, 2, 3, 4)

Hence, if the Quran could place Jesus at the time of Moses then there should be no problem for Mr. Ahmed to accept that the author of the Quran erroneously believed that Allah revealed the Gospel during that same period as well. For more on this gross mistake we recommend this article.

This is proof enough that this unlettered Prophet is Muhammad (pbuh). The Quran further testifies this.

Yusuf Ali:

[029:048]  And thou wast not (able) to recite a Book before this (Book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand: In that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted.

The author has mistakenly assumed that the Arabic word for unlettered in Q. 7:157-158, specifically ummi, means an illiterate and that Q. 29:48 supports Muhammad being illiterate, neither of which is correct. For more on this issue please consult the following articles: [1], [2]

But this is all beside the point since I wasn’t denying here that Q. 7:157-158 refers to Muhammad (even though that is debatable). I was simply proving that Muhammad is not speaking in Q. 7:157-158, but rather Moses is (supposedly), and therefore does not meet my challenge to show where Muhammad said he was a prophet.

Verse 158 reads

158. say: "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah,

If this is Moses (pbuh) who is he telling this to? To the Jews? Din’t [sic] the Jews already believe that Moses (pbuh) is God’s messenger? When God Almighty is saying in this verse "say" (In present tense) it is obviously God commanding Muhammad (pbuh) is to say to the Jews and others "I am a messenger of Allah".

So this simply meets Shamoun’s challenge. But we have something better than that.

Again, note the straw man argumentation. Sorry for sounding like a broken record but I need to repeat the point that I didn’t say that Q. 7:157-158 is identifying Moses as that unlettered prophet. Rather, I expressly stated that Q. 7:157-158 is recording the words of Moses to the Israelites, that Moses was announcing the coming of an unlettered prophet. As such, this cannot be produced as evidence for Muhammad claiming to be a prophet, so this DOES NOT meet my challenge at all.

Neither does the following text:

"Muhammad is the apostle of Allah." (Quran 48:29)

We here have God testifying that Muhammad (pbuh) is the apostle of God. Whether you believe that, the author of the Quran is God or not is Irrelevant.

But even if you disagree that God is not the author of the Quran [sic], the presumed author by the Christians and non-Muslims is Muhammad (pbuh). So he himself is testifying that he is the apostle of God. So we see this challenge has been met.

Hilarious indeed! Muhammad (pbuh) is a messenger of God as the Quran confirms and Quran was revealed to him. So according to your own standards Muhammad (pbuh) is a Prophet. (He was indeed a Prophet as well)

The author provides further evidence that he hasn’t read my article clearly and carefully. My challenge wasn’t to show where Muhammad said he was an apostle but where he claimed to be a prophet. After all, an apostle is not the same as a prophet just as Ahmed agrees and as we will see shortly. To, therefore, quote verses where Muhammad claims to be an apostle fails to meet my challenge.

Moreover, if Ahmed accepts God’s testimony on behalf of Muhammad (even though the Quran is not the word of the true God) then he needs to be consistent and accept the fact that according to the NT God himself testifies that Jesus his beloved Son is the Lord God and the Creator of the heavens and the earth:

"But of the Son he [the Father] says, ‘Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.’ And, ‘You, Lord [Jesus], laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of your hands; they will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment, like a robe you will roll them up, like a garment they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will have no end.’" Hebrews 1:8-12

More importantly, if Ahmed believes that passages where Muhammad is referred to as an apostle or prophet in the third person meets our challenge on the grounds that Christians believe that Muhammad concocted the Quran, which therefore means that Muhammad is actually speaking at this point, then he again needs to be consistent in his argumentation. He must accept that the NT writers taught that Christ inspired them and that he spoke through the Apostles and Evangelists to communicate his words to believers:

"But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves. For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict." Luke 21:14-15

"since you are demanding proof that Christ is speaking through me. He is not weak in dealing with you, but is powerful among you… This is why I write these things when I am absent, that when I come I may not have to be harsh in my use of authority—the authority the Lord gave me for building you up, not for tearing you down." 2 Corinthians 13:3, 10

"Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you. I have written both of them as reminders to stimulate you to wholesome thinking. I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles." 2 Peter 3:1-2

"The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ." Revelation 1:1-2

"I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. On the Lord's Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, which said: ‘Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.’ I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and among the lampstands was someone ‘like a son of man,’ dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. His head and hair were white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, and out of his mouth came a sharp double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance. When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: ‘Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I WAS DEAD, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later.’" Revelation 1:9-19

This means that whenever an Apostle or writer of the NT identified Jesus as God it was actually Christ who inspired that person to make such a claim. Thus, Ahmed must accept that passages of the NT where Christ is called God, such as in the following texts:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:1

"waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ," Titus 2:13

"Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:" 2 Peter 1:1

Are actually the words of the risen Lord, being Jesus’ own testimony to his own Person. This means that the Muslim challenge to show where Jesus said he is God has been thoroughly met! More on this below.

Mr. Ahmed accepts the fact that a prophet is distinct from a messenger since the Quran acknowledges that they are not the same. But he then contradicts the Quran by erroneously asserting that every messenger is a prophet that is given a scripture but not the other way around.

Difference between a Prophet (Nabi) and a Messenger (Rasool)

Rasool is a person to whom "risalat" is given i.e. Scripture, Laws etc. Rasool[sic] is an ordinary Prophet to whom these things are not given.

Every Rasool (Messenger) is a Prophet (Nabi) whereas every Prophet(Nabi) is not a messenger. (Rasool)

If I say that this student has passed standard 5, it is understood that he has passed standard 3. Every one who has passed standard 5 has passed standard 3 but not the vice versa. Everyone who has passed standard 3 has not passed standard 5.

These comments make it rather obvious that not only is Mr. Ahmed unfamiliar with God’s true Word, the Holy Bible, but he also doesn’t have an accurate understanding of his own religious text.

In the first place, Mr. Ahmed’s statements are rather incoherent since he first says that a Rasool is a person who is given a scripture and laws but then says that a Rasool is an ordinary prophet who doesn’t receive these things! It seems that Mr. Ahmed meant that a Nabi is one who doesn’t receive either a scripture or laws.

But unfortunately for Mr. Ahmed the Quran disagrees with his assertion that prophets are not given scriptures. Even though the Quran does say that Allah gave the book to his messengers:

Those who reject the Book and the (revelations) with which We sent our apostles: but soon shall they know, - When the yokes (shall be) round their necks, and the chains; they shall be dragged along - In the boiling fetid fluid: then in the Fire shall they be burned; S. 40:70-72 Y. Ali

We verily sent Our messengers with clear proofs, and revealed with them the Scripture and the Balance, that mankind may observe right measure; and He revealed iron, wherein is mighty power and (many) uses for mankind, and that Allah may know him who helpeth Him and His messengers, though unseen. Lo! Allah is Strong, Almighty. S. 57:25 Pickthall

It also states that Allah gave the scripture to the prophets as well:

Mankind were one community, and Allah sent (unto them) prophets as bearers of good tidings and as warners, and revealed therewith the Scripture with the truth that it might judge between mankind concerning that wherein they differed. And only those unto whom (the Scripture) was given differed concerning it, after clear proofs had come unto them, through hatred one of another. And Allah by His Will guided those who believe unto the truth of that concerning which they differed. Allah guideth whom He will unto a straight path. S. 2:213 Pickthall

It belongs not to any mortal that God should give him the Book, the Judgment, the Prophethood, then he should say to men, 'Be you servants to me apart from God.' Rather, 'Be you masters in that you know the Book, and in that you study.' … And when God took compact with the Prophets: 'That I have given you of Book and Wisdom; then there shall come to you a Messenger confirming what is with you -- you shall believe in him and you shall help him; do you agree?' He said. 'And do you take My load on you on that condition?' They said, 'We do agree.' God said, 'Bear witness so, and I shall be with you among the witnesses.' S. 3:79, 81 Arberry

That is Our argument. We gave it unto Abraham against his folk. We raise unto degrees of wisdom whom We will. Lo! thy Lord is Wise, Aware. And We bestowed upon him Isaac and Jacob; each of them We guided; and Noah did We guide aforetime; and of his seed (We guided) David and Solomon and Job and Joseph and Moses and Aaron. Thus do We reward the good. And Zachariah and John and Jesus and Elias. Each one (of them) was of the righteous. And Ishmael and Elisha and Jonah and Lot. Each one (of them) did We prefer above (Our) creatures, With some of their forefathers and their offspring and their brethren; and We chose them and guided them unto a straight path. Such is the guidance of Allah wherewith He guideth whom He will of His bondmen. But if they had set up (for worship) aught beside Him, (all) that they did would have been vain. Those are they unto whom We gave the Scripture and command and prophethood. But if these disbelieve therein, then indeed We shall entrust it to a people who will not be disbelievers therein. Those are they whom Allah guideth, so follow their guidance. Say (O Muhammad, unto mankind): I ask of you no fee for it. Lo! it is naught but a Reminder to (His) creatures. S. 6:83-90 Pickthall

So receiving a scripture is not what distinguishes a messenger from a prophet. In fact, the Quran fails to tell us what exactly the difference between a prophet and messenger is.

Mr. Ahmed needs to therefore prove that every messenger is a prophet but not vice-versa. He cannot simply assume this to be the case since, in light of the Quran’s failure to clarify this issue, one can validly argue that it is the other way around, that every prophet is a messenger but not vice-versa.

Whatever the case may be, Mr. Ahmed will not meet our challenge by quoting passages where Muhammad said he was an apostle or messenger since a messenger isn’t the same as a prophet jus as the Quran itself testifies (cf. Q. 22:52).

In addressing my point that "Son of God" refers to Jesus’ Deity, i.e. that this title is used to denote that Christ is God in nature, Ahmed asserts that God has sons by the tons (a quote taken from the late Muslim polemicist Ahmad Deedat) and further claims that "son of God" means a righteous servant who is led by God’s Spirit. These points have already been addressed here: [1], [2], [3]

Furthermore, Ahmed did exactly what I said Muslims would do, namely, reject the assertion that Jesus claiming to be God’s unique Son suffices to prove that Christ did claim Divinity. But in making this assertion he will have to be consistent and accept the fact that Muhammad claiming to be a messenger does not answer my challenge since a messenger is not the same as a prophet, just as Ahmed himself admitted.

He also asks me to show him the following.

Now let me issue my challenge to Shamoun. Show me where in the Bible Jesus Christ (pbuh) said

"God is a Trinity" or "I am God"

I think these challenges should not be very difficult for Shamoun or any Christian to meet. Since it’s the foundation of Christianity.

It is rather amusing to find this writer basically repeating the very same challenges which I said were a sign of a Muslim’s inconsistency! The very point of my challenges was to show to Muslims that they wouldn’t be able to meet similar challenges to their own religious beliefs.

Moreover, one of Mr. Ahmed’s own cohorts has actually met the challenge for us. A former writer of Osama Abdallah’s site has written an article showing that Christians lie when they say Jesus didn’t kill anyone since he killed many people all throughout the OT and was therefore excessively cruel:

Now let us go back to the main topic, which is refuting the Christian propaganda lie that Jesus never killed anyone. As you all know, Christians always make the claim that Jesus is God, they claim that Jesus is the same God of the OT. So basically what we have is this:

1- Jesus is God

2- Jesus is the God of the Old Testement [sic]

3- Christians believe that the OT is the inspired word of God

 4- The OT is authentic to the Christian

5- The God in the OT is Jesus

So since Jesus is the God of the OT, we shall now look at the God of the OT ordering the KILLINGS of many people: …

So since Jesus is God, and is the God of the OT, this means that it was Jesus who ordered these killings and it was Jesus who killed all these people! Hence the Christian myth is DEBUNKED. Jesus did kill, and Jesus ordered the killings of women and children, the fact that Christians claim that Jesus never killed anyone is a plane intentional lie by the Christians. We must ask why would the Christians make such a blatant lie? And it also leaves us with another question, which is what else do the Christians lie about? What other myths and propaganda do they create on their made up faith? We can only guess, but no doubt each lie will get caught and exposed. (Jesus didn’t kill anyone, oh really? Debunking another Christian myth; source)

Now note how this works against Mr. Ahmed. If Zaatari wants to have his conclusion stand, i.e. that Jesus killed many people in the OT, then he has to accept that Jesus is the God revealed in the OT. After all, that was the basic assumption of his thesis. He cannot keep the conclusion but discard the assumption on which it was based. Hence, since Zaatari acknowledges that Christians believe that Jesus is the same God of the OT, and tried to use this to prove that Jesus killed people, then both he and Mr. Ahmed must accept the fact that anytime Yahweh in the OT says he is God that this is actually Jesus Christ speaking!

Therefore, passages like the following:

"Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god. Who is like me? Let him proclaim it. Let him declare and set it before me, since I appointed an ancient people. Let them declare what is to come, and what will happen. Fear not, nor be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? And you are my witnesses! Is there a God besides me? There is no Rock; I know not any.’" Isaiah 44:6-8

"For my own sake, for my own sake, I do it, for how should my name be profaned? My glory I will not give to another. Listen to me, O Jacob, and Israel, whom I called! I am he; I am the first, and I am the last." Isaiah 48:11-12

Are actually the words of the pre-incarnate Christ which he spoke through the prophets to make sure that his people knew that he alone is God and that there is none besides him! The NT substantiates this fact since it quotes Jesus as claiming to be the very First and Last of the OT:

"When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, ‘Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.’" Revelation 1:17-18

"And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the first and the last, who died and came to life.’" Revelation 2:8

There is more to the story. Oftentimes one will find the OT prophets speaking of two Yahwehs, or more specifically of two distinct Persons as Yahweh. For instance, the prophet Zechariah speaks of Yahweh sending Yahweh to live and reign in Zion!

"Come, O Zion! Escape, you who live in the Daughter of Babylon!’ For this is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘After he has honored me and has sent me against the nations that have plundered you—for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eye- I will surely raise my hand against them so that their slaves will plunder them. Then you will know that the LORD Almighty HAS SENT ME. Shout and be glad, O Daughter of Zion. FOR I AM COMING, AND I WILL LIVE AMONG YOU,’ declares the LORD. ‘Many nations will be joined with the LORD in that day and will become MY people. I WILL LIVE AMONG YOU and you will know that the LORD Almighty HAS SENT ME to you. The LORD will inherit Judah as his portion in the holy land and will again choose Jerusalem. Be still before the LORD, all mankind, because he has roused himself from his holy dwelling.’" Zechariah 2:7-13

Here is a clear, unambiguous reference to two distinct Persons as Yahweh God, one Yahweh who sends and the other Yahweh who is sent to live among the people!

Zechariah further sees Yahweh descending upon the Mount of Olives with his feet and splitting it in half:

"A day of the LORD is coming when your plunder will be divided among you. I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. On that day HIS FEET will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come, and all the holy ones with him." Zechariah 14:1-5

According to the NT Jesus is the One who will descend upon the Mount of Olives with all his saints or holy ones:

"After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. ‘Men of Galilee,’ they said, ‘why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.’ Then they returned to Jerusalem from the hill called the Mount of Olives, a Sabbath day's walk from the city.’" Acts 1:9-12

The statements of the two men (who happen to be angels) indicate that Jesus will return to the Mount of Olives since this is the place from where he ascended! And:

"May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones." 1 Thessalonians 3:13

The above passages indicate that when Zechariah spoke of Yahweh sending Yahweh to descend upon the Mount of Olives and dwell with the people he was actually speaking of the risen and immortal Lord Jesus Christ descending from heaven in his glorified physical body at his second coming! To put it rather plainly, Zechariah was referring to the glorified and resurrected Jesus returning to Jerusalem to rule as the one, universal King of the earth since Jesus is the Yahweh he had seen by inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Hence, the OT prophets furnish evidence that a) Yahweh is multi-personal, and b) that Jesus is Yahweh God.

And since Mr. Ahmed likes to dish out challenges we will now issue some additional ones of our own:

- Please produce a verse from the Quran where the actual word "Tauhid", the word used to denote Islamic monotheism, appears.

- Please produce verses of the Quran that mention by name the three classifications or subsets of Tauhid:

  1. tauhid al-rububiyyah.
  2. tauhid al-uluhiyya.
  3. ibaadah, tauhid al-asma wa sifat.

- Please quote a passage of the Quran where it says that a Muslim must utter the shahadah/kalima, that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his messenger, in order to be a Muslim.

It shouldn’t be hard for Mr. Ahmed meet these challenges seeing that they are the foundation of his religion.

Here, now, is his answer to my challenge to produce verses from the Quran showing where the author specifies the exact number of surahs contained therein as well as their respective names.

All you are doing here is expecting God to reveal the list of names of Surahs. Hilarious indeed ! If God had revealed such a thing, you would ask us to show the preface in the Holy Quran written by God himself and such things on and on.

Much like Muslims expect Christians to show where God mentioned the exact list of books and the exact names of the biblical authors. It is rather sad that it took for us to level the same kind of arguments against the Muslim scripture for Mr. Ahmed to be able see just how inconsistent and illogical Muslim claims against the Holy Bible truly are.

Quran is not like the Bible in which pages and pages are filled with names and genealogies.

This is an argument against its veracity since it doesn’t provide enough details which would allow a historian to be able to situate the Muslim scripture in a specific historical context. Muslims are dependant on secondary sources written hundreds of years after the time Muhammad supposedly lived to make sense out of their scripture.

Hence, because the Quran is not a book which contains genealogies and isn’t compiled in a coherent and chronological fashion like the Bible it fails to provide any historical framework for the reader to work with in order to better understand its message and theme.

Muslims can atleast[sic] tell that there are 114 Surahs in the Holy Quran as Shamoun also knows it.

This begs the question since it assumes that the Quran is composed only of 114 surahs. But how does the author know this with absolute certainty? What Quranic references can he produce to prove that the author of the Quran intended to compose only 114 chapters? He can’t since there are no such verses. He can’t even appeal to the hadith literature, despite the fact that these traditions were written down over two hundred years after Muhammad’s death, since neither al-Bukhari nor Imam Muslim provide any report where Muhammad delineates the exact length of the Quran.

Besides, the Muslim sources admit that disagreements arose among various Muslim regarding whether the Quran actually contained 111, 114 or 116 chapters (1, 2, 3, 4, 5).

If supposedly God Almighty had revealed the length of the Quran, then he may ask us to show in the Quran that how many words are there in the Quran, how many letters are there in the Quran, How many verses are there in the Quran and on and on.

Shamoun is expecting God to reveal the length of the Quran and the list of 114 chapters. The challenge itself makes me laugh.

Note the blatant inconsistency and double standard. Mr. Ahmed wants Christians to provide evidence for the exact list of Biblical books but tries to brush aside our challenge to produce a similar list for the Quran. Instead of worrying about any other supposed challenges that I may bring up Mr. Ahmed should contend himself with answering the challenges I actually did raise. But he clearly knows that he cannot and that is why he needs to bring up all of these red herrings. He is trying to desperately hide the fact that neither he nor any other Muslim can meet any of our challenges, and they are therefore inconsistent for demanding of Christians to do what they themselves cannot do for their own scriptures.

Mr. Ahmed claims that God promised to preserve the Quran:

He is expecting us to tell the exact length of the Quran from the Quran itself. The length of the Quran is what we have today. God has promised us to preserve the Holy Quran.

"[015:009]  We have, without doubt, sent down the Message (i.e. the Quran); and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)."

This will actually backfire against him for at least two reasons. First, the immediate problem with Mr. Ahmed’s assertion is that he erroneously interprets Q. 15:9 to be a promise made in reference to the Quran alone, as opposed to referring to all the Scriptures that God revealed.

He fails to mention that the Quran identifies the previous Scriptures as the Message (Yusuf Ali translation) which God sent down to his prophets. This means that God’s promise to preserve the Message would naturally include the Bible as well, that God would protect the Bible from corruption.

To illustrate this point here, once again, is the verse along with the transliteration of the specific Arabic word which Y. Ali rendered as Message:

then they would not be respited. It is We who have sent down the Remembrance (al-thikra), and We watch over it. S. 15:9 Arberry

Now compare this promise to protect the Remembrance with the following citations that identify the prophetic Scriptures in the hands of the Jews and Christians as part of this same Remembrance:

We sent not any before thee, except men to whom We revealed: 'Question the people of the Remembrance (al-thikri), if it should be that you do not know -- S. 16:43 Arberry

And We sent not before you (O Muhammad SAW) but men to whom We inspired, so ask the people of the Reminder (al-thikri) [Scriptures - the Taurat (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel)] if you do not know. S. 21:7 Hilali-Khan

Note the comments of some of Islam’s renowned exegetes concerning the above texts:

(And We sent not (as Our messengers) before you other than men) human beings like you (whom We inspired) to whom We sent angels just as We have sent to you. (Ask the followers of the Reminder) the people of the Torah and the Gospel (if you know not) that Allah sent only human messengers? (Tanwr al-Miqbs min Tafsr Ibn ‘Abbs on Q. 21:7; source, see also this page; bold and italic emphasis ours)

And We did not send before you anything other than men, to whom We revealed, and [sent] not angels: 'So ask the followers of the Remembrance, those knowledgeable in the Torah and the Gospels; if you do not know', that, then they know it, and you are more likely to believe them than the believers are to believe Muhammad (s), (Tafsir al-Jalalayn on Q. 16:43; source, see also this page; bold and italic emphasis ours)

Here is another Quranic citation:

Or have they taken for worship (other) aliha (gods) besides Him? Say: "Bring your proof:" This (the Qur'an) is the Reminder for those with me and the Reminder (wa thikru) for those before me. But most of them know not the Truth, so they are averse. S. 21:24 Hilali-Khan

Al-Jalalayn explain that:

Or have they chosen besides Him, exalted be He, other than Him, gods? (herein is an interrogative meant as a rebuke). Say: 'Bring your proof, for this - but such a thing is impossible. This is the Remembrance of those with me, namely, my community, and that [Remembrance] is the Qur'an, and the Remembrance of those before me, of communities, namely, the Torah and the Gospel and other Books of God, not a single one of which contains the statement that with God there exists another god, in the way that they claim - exalted be He above such a thing. Nay, but most of them do not know the truth, the affirmation of God's Oneness, and so they are disregardful', of that discernment that leads to [knowledge of] it. (Tafsir Al-Jalalayn; source; bold and italic emphasis ours)

Other Quranic verses include:

And indeed We granted to Musa (Moses) and Harun (Aaron) the criterion (of right and wrong), and a shining light [i.e. the Taurat (Torah)] and a Reminder (wa thikran) for Al-Muttaqun (the pious - see V.2:2). S. 21:48 Hilali-Khan

For We have written in the Psalms, after the Remembrance, 'The earth shall be the inheritance of My righteous servants.' S. 21:105 Arberry

We also gave Moses the guidance, and We bequeathed upon the Children of Israel the Book for a guidance and for a reminder (wa thikran) to men possessed of minds. S. 40:53-54 Arberry

Thus, since God swore to preserve the Message/Remembrance and since the Message/Remembrance includes the Bible books such as the Torah, the Psalms and the Gospels this therefore means that God has sworn to preserve the Holy Bible.

The other problem with the author’s appeal to Q. 15:9 is that the Quran admits that there were people who corrupted it!

(Of just such wrath) as We sent down on those who divided (Scripture into arbitrary parts), - (So also on such) as have made Qur'an into shreds (as they please). S. 15:90-91 Y. Ali

The foregoing leaves us with one of three conclusions:

  1. We have a contradiction in the Quran.
  2. Allah failed to preserve the Quran, indicating that he isn’t powerful enough to carry out his will.
  3. The Quran is not part of the Remembrance which Allah promised to protect and preserve, which explains why people were able to corrupt it.


Conclusion:

Mr. Ahmed was not able to meet our first challenge, whereas the other two challenges proved to be too much for him to handle and therefore decided to skirt the issues by raising up irrelevant points. Mr. Ahmed’s rebuttal managed to provide further confirmation for our assertion that Muslims are blatantly inconsistent since they would not raise the same objections against their own false scripture, the Quran, even though it is a book that deceives mankind from the truth of God revealed in his blessed Son the Lord Jesus Christ.


Rebuttals to Answering-Christianity
Further articles by Sam Shamoun
Answering Islam Home Page