A response to 1.2.8
Summary: What is a 'Trinity'?
Does the Bible teach that
Jesus is not equal to God?
Jesus and God can not be co-equal because the
In order to answer the statement
that Jesus claimed to be inferior to God, we need to look at what exactly
Jesus taught about Himself
What Jesus said about Himself.
This is very brief, and definitely not complete.
a) Jesus on his pre-existence:
Jesus is the only man in the history of the world who existed before
his birth. (I am not talking about
people who believe in reincarnation, since both Christianity and Islam
56 "Your father Abraham rejoiced
to see my day: and he saw it,
and was glad.
57 Then said the Jews unto him,
Thou art not yet fifty years old, and
hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily,
verily, I say unto you, Before
Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to
cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and
went out of the
through the midst of them, and so passed by."
The words "I am" are exactly the same God used when Moses asked Him
who He was. Most
Muslims do not accept this, so let us just forget about the controversy
about the "I am" for a moment, and focus on one astounding fact: Jesus
claimed to have been alive before Abraham was born.
5 " And now, O Father, glorify thou me
with thine own self
with the glory which I had with thee before
the world was."
Again Jesus says that he existed before. In fact, he existed before
the creation of the world.
Not even Mohammed claimed this, the closest parallel in Islam is the
doctrine of the pre-existence of
b) The descent and ascent of Jesus:
Again we look at John 17:5:
"And now, O Father, glorify thou me with
thine own self with the
glory which I had with Thee before the world
Jesus had glory with God, but laid it aside (since he did not have it
when he was praying this), and after his resurrection, he was reinstated
in that glory.
Paul said exactly the same thing:
5 Let this mind be in you, which
was also in Christ
6 Who, being in the form of God,
thought it not robbery to be equal
7 But made himself of no reputation,
and took upon him the form of a
servant, and was
made in the
likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as
a man, he humbled himself, and became
the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly
exalted him, and given him a name
which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every
knee should bow, of things in
heaven, and things in earth, and things under
11 And that every tongue should
confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to
the glory of God the Father.
Paul teaches that:
This is exactly what Jesus teaches about himself in John 17 !
Jesus was in the
form of God
He did not consider
this as something to be grasped
But emptied himself
of it and took the form of a servant
Afterwards, he was
reinstated in his previous glory
c) Jesus says that he can duplicate every act of God:
19 "Then answered Jesus and said unto them,
Truly, I say to you,
The Son can do nothing of himself, but what
he sees the Father do: for
whatever the Father does, the Son also does."
Since Jesus said himself that he existed before the creation of the
world, he has seen the creation.
THIS IMPLIES, THAT BECAUSE HE SEES THE FATHER CREATING, HE HIMSELF IS
THE CREATOR. This is why God says in His word:
1 In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning
3 All things were made by
him; and without him was not any thing made
that was made.
Whatever the Son sees the Father doing, he does.
All things were made by the Word of God:
3 " And God said, Let there be light:
and there was light."
God spoke His Word, and the Universe was created.
Even the Qur'an calls Jesus "Kalimatullah", The Word of God!
d)Jesus claims that God has made him the judge of the whole human
John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth
them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
e)Jesus claims that the same honour due to God is due to him!
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all
judgment unto the Son:
John 5: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as
they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not
the Father which hath sent him.
f)Jesus claims to be uncreated, like the Father.
John 5: 26 For as the Father hath life in himself;
so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
With this overview of what Jesus really said about Himself in mind,
let us now look at the verses Mr. Al-Kadhi has problems with:
Jesus and God can not be co-equal because the
This is not a statement of substance, but of rank.
Like the crown prince is equal in substance to his father the king, and
his father is greater in rank, so the rank of the Father is greater that
that of the descended Son. Compare it to what Jesus said in the following
"... my Father is greater than I." John 14:28
Obviously if God is greater than Jesus (pbuh)
then they can not be equal.
23 That all men should honour the
Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth
not the Father which hath sent him.
Jesus says that he should receive the same honour
his Father does, even as the crown prince, as heir to the throne, receives
the same honour as the king!
We also read:
With all these verses, it is important to remember that Jesus taught that
he lay down his existence of equality with God to become as a slave, to
be born as a human being among humans, in order to bridge the gap between
God and mankind. This inevitably meant that he limited his knowledge that
he possessed as God, to be human. Jesus was a baby, had to learn to crawl,
walk and speak. He had to go to school, just like any other human being.
Since he was human, he was tempted like a human, and as a human, he had
to be obedient to God. He was not Deity disguised in a human body.
He was Deity incarnated as a human being! Jesus was human in every
sense of the word.
"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man,
no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."
If Jesus and God were equal then it follows that
they will be equal in knowledge. But as we can see, God is greater in
knowledge than Jesus (pbuh).
"And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature..."
"Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience
by the things which he suffered." Hebrews 5:8
If God and Jesus are equal to one-another then
did God too have to "increase in wisdom and stature"? Did God too have
learn obedience? To whom would He have to be
obedient? To another side of his own essence?
Some translations of the verse from Philippians 2 above say that "He
emptied Himself to take on the form of a servant". Jesus emptied himself
of being God, and became a man, in obedience to his Father.
God is claimed to have "begotten" Jesus (pbuh).
Jesus (pbuh) is claimed to be the "Son" of God. "Beget" is a verb which
implies an action. No matter how you define
what God actually did in order to "beget" Jesus (pbuh), any definition
must require that God Almighty performed some
action and then Jesus (pbuh) came into being. Before God performed this
action Jesus was not. After God performed
this action Jesus came into being. Thus, not only is Jesus (pbuh) not eternal,
since there was a time (before the "begetting")
when he did not exist, but he can also never be co-eternal with God since
God was in existence at a time when Jesus
was not. This is very simple grade-school logic.
This is easily understood if you read the relevant scriptures in context:
Hebrews 1 (NIV):
1 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at
many times and in various ways,
In verse 2 we learn that God made the universe through the Son, and then
He made the Son heir of all things. As we will point out later, Jesus'
son ship is not biological but relational. It is in becoming Heir to
creation that the Second Person of God becomes Son to the Father.
Remember that the terms "Father" and "Son" are metaphors to describe the
functional relationship between the Persons of God. Even though both persons
are eternal, at some stage in the history of God THEIR RELATIONSHIP became
that of "Father" and "Son". It is very clear from this
passage that the author regarded the Son as an eternal Being. ("But about
the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever...")
2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed
heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation
of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he
had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the
Majesty in heaven.
4 So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited
is superior to theirs. 5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You
are my Son; today I have become your Father " ?
(King James: "Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee?")
Or again, "I will be his Father, and
he will be my Son" ?
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
"Let all God's angels worship him."
7 In speaking of the angels he says, "He makes his angels winds, his
servants flames of fire."
8 But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever
and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God,
your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with
the oil of joy."
10 He also says, "In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations
of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.
11 They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a
12 You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed.
But you remain the same, and your years will never end."
13 To which of the angels did God ever say, "Sit at my right
hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet" ?
14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will
In most of his arguments in this section, Mr.
Al-Kadhi uses the fact that there are more than one person in God to prove
that since these Persons interact, they cannot be the same being. Well,
we will say something later on how one Being can be more that one Person.
Remember that the word "God" is not synonym to "Father" because God is
also the Son and the Spirit. "Son" and "Father" are not synonyms, because
although both is the same one God, they are different Persons.
I have remixed the quotations from the book in
this section, mainly to put it in a more logical sequence, but also to
keep the best for last.
"And he went a little farther, and fell on his
face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup
me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt"
"He (Jesus) went away again the second time, and
prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me,
except I drink it, thy will be done." Matthew
And "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear,
I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but
the will of the Father which hath sent me." John
Both these verses tell us that Jesus and God
have two different will and that Jesus' will is subordinate to that of God. If Jesus
and God were one substance then this ONE substance must only have only ONE will.
As I have stated above, we have interaction between the Persons of God,
this does not prove that they are not both God. There is an important question
here: Does the will of Jesus differ from the will of his Father? At first glance it
may look like it. Let us first look at the verse:
"because I seek not mine own will, but the will
of the Father which hath sent me"
Jesus does NOT say that he actually wants to do his
own thing, he states here that he wants to do exactly what his Father wants him
to do. This means that his will is exactly equal to that of the Father.
So what about Jesus praying not to be crucified?
In order to understand the following, it is important that the reader should first read
the article on the Blood Sacrifice. If you have not read it yet,
please read it now!
Let me tell you a short parable to illustrate
the point: (the persons of the father and son in this parable do not necessarily
coincide with the Father and Son)
A man had a son, who became very ill. He took
him to hospital and the doctor told him that his son would die if he did
not receive a kidney transplant very soon. The problem was, there was none
available. The father told the doctors that he would donate a kidney to
save his son.
After they examined the father, they found that
he was a poor anesthetic risk and would probably not survive the operation.
Since it was the only chance his son had of survival, he decided to go
The night before the operation, the father became
very scared, because he knew that there was a chance that he would die.
He phoned the doctor, and pleaded him to find another way of saving his
son. The doctor confirmed that the only way the son's life could be saved
was if the father donated his kidney. So in spite of his fear and terror, the father
went ahead with the planned kidney transplant. To save his son, possibly at the
cost of his own life.
Of course this father did not want the operation.
What he really wanted was for his son to be healthy and not to need the
operation. But the fact was that his son would die without the operation.
So because of the reality of his sons disease, the father wanted
Did the Father want to sacrifice His own Son?
What does God really want?
God wants mankind to be pure and holy, and
to love Him:
Deuteronomy 6: 4 Hear, O Israel:
The LORD our God is one LORD:
And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all
thy soul, and with
all thy might.
But the reality is that mankind is separated from
God, and therefore morally diseased, unable to love God the way He intended.
The law of God requires that sinners (us!) be separated from God
eternally (cast into hell). But since God loved us He decided to perform
painful surgery: The death of His Son on the cross, even though
God would prefer not to do it! In Jesus' supplication not to be crucified
we see Jesus' human terror of going to hell, but more important, we have
a glimpse of God's horror at the sacrifice that was about to take place.
In Jesus' decision to be crucified we see God's incomprehensible love for
us: that He did not spare his only Son in order to save us.
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with
a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God,
my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" Matthew 27:46
"The idea of the Second Person of a Holy Trinity
knowing what it is to be God-forsaken has only to be stated to be
recognized as absurd" For Christ's Sake, pp. 45.
Misha'al, your sin separates you from God, because God is holy. But this
separation is not complete yet. The Biblical definition of hell is somewhat
different from that of the Qur'an. Yes, the Bible does use the metaphor
of a everlasting fire to describe the torment of hell, but in the following
verse Jesus describes the bare essence of hell:
11 "And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east
and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom
12 But the children of the kingdom (of Satan) shall
be cast out into
outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
According to Jesus, hell is the "Outer Darkness". It is where God chooses
not to be. It is the final, complete separation from God.
Jesus was forsaken by God. He was in hell. Because of our sin,
that is where we all should go. Read the verses from Isiah 53 quoted in
the Blood atonement article again. This was written hundreds of years
before Jesus came to earth.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our
iniquities (sin); the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his
way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity (sin) of us all.
Jesus went to hell because I was heading that way. Because he went there
in my place, and paid my debt, I can be certain of being with God in heaven
for all eternity.
First go back and read the comments on
co-equality and co-eternity. Next, remember when Jesus is claimed to have
(Mark 15:37, John 19:30). If God and Jesus are
one substance then God died also. But then who was governing all of
It is amazing that Mr. Al-Kadhi does not believe
in the immortality of the soul (spirit) even if the Qur'an emphatically
Sura 6:61 Section 8. He is the Irresistible,
(watching) from above over His worshippers, and He sets guardians over
you. At length, when death approaches one of you, Our angels take his soul,
and they never fail in their duty.
Since the soul does not die with the body, and God
is the soul of Christ, why should you wonder what happened to the universe
while Jesus was dead?
"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of
sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against]
the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh
a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven
him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy
Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in
This is easily understood if you remember that the
Son and the Holy Spirit are two persons. It is necessary to know what blasphemy
against the Holy Spirit is.
[world] to come." Matthew 12:31-32
If God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are "the same
substance" then how can a blasphemy against Jesus be forgiven while a
blasphemy against the Holy Ghost can not be forgiven?
The work of the Holy Spirit according to the
Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is to call Him
To convict us of our sin, and our own helplessness
to do anything about it
To show us God's solution for the problem: the cross
of Jesus Christ
Calling the Holy Spirit a liar is the only sin that
cannot be forgiven, since it means rejecting the salvation that God so
lovingly and freely offers us!
To deny that our sin is really as bad as God says
To reject God's cure for the disease: God's free
gift of love and forgiveness based on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ
The "Mystery of the Trinity"
The Trinity is no mystery because God is omnipotent,
this means He can do whatever He wants, and He can be whatever He wants.
If He chooses to be a Trinity, or anything else that I cannot understand,
then it is His choice, there is nothing I can do to force Him to conform
to my idea of how He should be. An ant cannot deny the existence of my
computer just because he cannot understand it!
Even explaining the supposed "Trinity" away as
a "mystery" does not hold water. In 1 Corinthians 14:33 we read "For God
is not [the author] of confusion." Thus, confusion
can never be His very nature.
Since when is "confusion" a synonym of "mystery"??
THIS is why blind faith was demanded, and THIS
is why twelve million Christians were put to death by the church as heretics
in the notorious Church "Inquisitions" (Apology
for Mohammed and the Qur'an, John Davenport).
Misha'al, to claim that God cannot be something because you cannot
understand it is to be blind in the extreme. God is much bigger that our
arithmetic and calculations. We must not believe everyone who claims to
be a prophet blindly, but examine his claim in the light of the revelation
that preceded him. It is ironic that Muslims say that Christians rely on
blind faith when they themselves commit their souls to the teachings of
one man, who gave absolutely no proof that his message was really
from God, apart from his own word.
As far as I am concerned, to trust one man on just his word alone with
your eternal life is the definition of blind faith...
The Rebuttal to "What Did Jesus Really Say?"
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